Across the Table - Our First Year

Jordan Anderson, Rachel Everett, Delisa Troupe, Suhani Mahajan, Sofia Mang, Dhruv Singh, Caleb Smith, Orelia Thottam, Grace Yang

In this episode, hosts Delisa, Grace, Sofia, Rachel, Orelia, Jordan, Caleb, Suhani, and Dhruv discuss their favorite memories, biggest accomplishments, and hopes for next year as the first official year of Point of View comes to a bittersweet end. Listen on Spotify or Apple Music. 

Delisa Troupe: Hello and welcome to Point of View where we give students a place to listen, learn, and lean in. I’m your host Delisa Troupe, and today I’m sitting with Grace, Sofia, Rachel, Orelia, Jordan, Caleb, Suhani, and Dhruv, some of the hosts of podcasts as this class comes to a bittersweet end. So the first question that we’re touching on today is how, what was your first impression of each other and the class like, think back to like your first day of school. What did you think of it?

Sofia Mang: It was a little bit awkward, because it was such a small class and some like not many of us knew each other. But I do think that it was kind of nice getting to know each other on the beginning because it was like, those icebreakers were kind of funny, and especially like the thing with Dhruv. Or used to call him like Drew with a v. I don’t know.

Delisa: So I kind of like started the class because Sofia told me about it. I had no idea even existed. And she was like, can you please come? I don’t know, and she was like, begging me. And at the time, I was an intro to art. But I decided to drop that because the class was like mostly freshmen. And I decided to join this instead, and I’m really glad that I did.

Rachel Everett: I remember for like, oh, was it like first week or two maybe three, Caleb our like head editor just was not in this class. He was not here for like, the longest time. And it was, so we got past that. Um, but I certainly remember like how seeing it was, it was an interest group. And we were all like, you know. Like sometimes in a class, you can all see people that like, oh that makes sense they’re in this class. Or like they fit like a stereotype. We all come from like, different backgrounds. And I kind of like that.

Suhani Mahajan: I just want to say y’all terrified me, because I didn’t know anyone but Dhruv, and Rachel.

Caleb: And me.

Suhani: No because I just did not know you until this year.

Caleb: You knew of my name right?

Suhani: You know, that’s a question mark. But Rachel was like a comfort like, life saver thing. And Dhruv was like, oh that’s that kid from freshman year. And then the rest of y’all were like, og my god, they’re so close. And I had no idea if I’d be able to like mesh with everyone in the class, especially since most of y’all are juniors, and I’m a senior.

Grace: I don’t know, I did not think we were that close. Like on the first day, because I didn’t know anybody because Marcus came later. He was the only person I knew, and even like Marcus came later and he only talked to me a few times he’s like clingy. And so I don’t know, my first day I saw like, I think it was Rachel, Suhani, who were in here. And I was like, looking around the classroom. And I was like, is this journalism? And they’re like yeah, and I was like oh I thought it was a different room or like a different title. Because I thought, I signed up for messenger, like the writing portion. But then I like got assigned to this class. And I was like, did I sign up for this? I’m like, I don’t think I did. But Mrs. Evans was talking about how like, we could like edit audio and maybe do videos. And I was like, okay, I guess I’ll stay. And like, because there’s too much of a hassle to go to my counselor, but like I’m glad I did. Because I agree with Rachel that like, it brings in a lot of people who are like in different social circles, and like in different grades as well. So it’s like really interesting to see how everyone’s doing and like, because everyone brings a different opinion. I feel like which is really interesting to see.

Delisa: Poor Jonah, the only freshman.

Sofia: I kind of like to call it, I told Delisa this the other day and I was we’re kinda like Breakfast Club. Yeah, have you guys never seen that movie?

Rachel: No.

Sofia: I’ve seen it. Jordan, how do you feel being like the only sophomore in this class?

Jordan: At first I was terrified. Because I didn’t know anyone. And I do really, I’m like really bad in situations where I don’t know anybody. So like, I’m quiet, I still am. But like outside this class, I’m like a hot mess but, we’re not gonna talk about that. Like I was like, really scared at first because I was like, “Oh i’m probably gonna do terrible. Everyone’s probably gonna yell at e if I mess something up.” But like eventually, I was like okay nice. This is like my favorite class. Whenever I’m stressed about chemistry I’m so happy, this is my next class because I can just like relax and think about happy things.

Delisa: No, this is kind of off topic, but you know Mekayle Upton. So I’m wither her in messenger,and she’s always talking about how you’re always talking about podcast.

Jordan: I love this class. This is the only reason why I come to school. Because if I didn’t have this class, I wouldn’t be in school 90% of the time.

Sofia: I’m kind of curious, because Orelia you’re also new to the school this year. How did you hear about this class and like find out.

Orelia Thottam: So, I was supposed to go to messenger too, and I was here Sophomore year. So that’s the class that I signed up for. And I was supposed to be a photographer for messenger. But then my fourth period was clashing with German, so they put me in this class. So my counselor was like, oh so you have to choose between journalism and German. And I was like, no I want both classes, I’m not choosing between either though. And she’s saying we’ll see about it later. And the next day she emailed me saying it’s only messenger so journalism four is fine. Okay, so I thought it was another messenger class. But I didn’t remember that over the summer, I did sign up for this class. So it was going to be the same class with Messenger, like it’s going to be the same thing. And then when I come on here, there’s like 11 people in this class. I know there’s quite a lot of people in messenger. Okay. And then they told us this is broadcast, I was thinking there’s no point in changing so they just said it’s okay. It’s not like a knew people in messenger anyways so it was okay.

Suhani: It’s all a learning process.

Orelia: Sure and it wasn’t like I knew anyone in messenger that was like, if i change, I’d be like, with my friends. I didn’t know anyone in this class nor that one. So I was like, I’ll have to meet new people. So I'll just in this class.

Delisa: And we kind of already touched upon this. But the second question is, why id you decide to join? And I wanted to ask Caleb, this because you technically did not have a choice. So how did you feel getting assigned senior editor podcast?

Caleb: I had worked on it the previous year, my junior year with Noelle. She had given me, her and Mrs. Evans and like Jennifer, the messenger editor, at the time gave me a chance to kind of work on some podcasts, kind of see what that was kind of like and then ended up loving it. And I also applied at the end of the year to be either like opinions editor for messenger, or like the multimedia, that sort of thing like the podcast editor. And I was kind of scared because it'd be our first year as a class. And I didn't know what to expect. But that kind of like the media and the audio aspect, I was really intrigued about it. Because I mean, I kind of started doing that sort of thing. During like 2020, and like COVID time, so I kind of was interested in that. And then I ended up loving it and kind of saw potential as a class.

Rachel: I’m very similar to Caleb in the sense that I was chosen as one of the junior podcasts editors alongside Sofia. So I wasn't, I was technically given a choice. But it was less of a choice and more of like, come on to the class. And I'm very glad I did. Because I ended up I thought I had wanted to go into like writing journalism. And I realized that my writing is probably not as strong as I thought it was. And now I like want, I'm looking at colleges, specifically for broadcast journalism, because of how much fun I've had in this class. And like, how much I just really found a passion for it.

Sofia: Yeah, just like Rachel. Obviously, I was also assigned as Junior podcast editor. And it was unfamiliar to me, but not as unfamiliar as it could be for Caleb and Rachel, because in my freshman year, I wasn't in Messenger or anything like that I was in it was like this, like one year class. It was really random. It was like a sports class. And we basically made videos and like interviewed athletes, and it was kind of like, a thing. So I was like, familiar with like, editing and like video and stuff like that. But I didn't enjoy like writing in the messenger. But then after I joined this class, I really liked the dynamic that came with this class. And yeah, I'm really glad that I stayed.

Dhruv Singh: I don't even know like the reason I ended up in podcasts, or broadcast journalism in the first place like I was never even tangentially related to like journalism kids. Like I was never in Messenger or talked to Miss Evans before this year. But I think that at the end of my junior year, because I was doing so much like video stuff with bolt and like the end of the AV program and stuff that is Pope recommended me to Mrs Evans. So then I was, I think it was like sneak peek or somewhere like the last day of school junior year, I came into like, say hi to teachers. And Mrs Evans emailed me even though I never talked to her before. She was like, “Hi, I have a class next year called like, broadcast journalism. I think that you'd like it. Do you happen to be at school today?” I wasn't even supposed to be at school, but I was like “Sure. Okay, I'll come by.” and then three months later, I ended up in here and I'm really glad I did because I got to learn like so much because like I I think that like I helped a lot with like the technical aspect for like the audio and recording editing and all that. But like, you know, I I really didn't have that much experience with the audio editing performance. Like I like you guys seem to think that I'm like, experiencing this I was kind of making it up as I went. No, and I'm so glad I did.

Rachel: Towards the beginning of the year we were all just calling out Dhruv's name like “Dhruv!” so he could come help us.

Dhruv: Dude that happened like ten minutes ago.

Suhani: Now it’s become Dhruv Singh and now it’s a command.

Grace: I remember one time I was editing something, I asked you for help to do something wasn't working right. He just pulled up Google and I could have just done this myself.

Dhruv: Listen, half the skill is figuring out how to figure out stuff when you don't know it. Okay, so that's what I say.

Delisa: And touching on that, other than Dhruv, who clearly taught us all the technical aspects of everything. What skills have you guys learned from this class?

Grace: Not to tute my own horn anything. Like I also did audio video to like, but like, I really only edited like sort of video. And I guess using platforms like Adobe Audition, sort of like to edit audio was something we learned like like cutting audio and like using fades and stuff like that. Like, I think one of my favorite days was when Rachel had the, like the Photoshop and Illustrator lesson because I, I think making graphic design is so cool. And like, and like it was, it was really fun, even though it was like frustrating at times. Because we were cutting out like Melissa and Megan or something like sometimes you'd cut out like their arm or something. Like it was I think it was really fun, like playing around with Photoshop and Illustrator and like, being able to make graphics and stuff like that is something I really like, like learning. And besides that, because I was completely new to like this whole journalism thing. So I didn't know how to like write interviews, like features or anything. So I think that gaining that like writing skill was also something really important. I feel like I learned.

Suhani: Like as a messenger kid, I love how different storytelling can be in broadcast journalism and how you have more choice with like, stylistic, like, stylistically how you get to tell that story, because it's not just like, interview, transition, interview transition, kind of how we do in Messenger. And I think that's been my favorite part. Because I feel like I've grown as a storyteller, how do you feel Delisa?

Delisa: I kind of like how we all grew together, like, especially in the beginning, some of us knew how to do things, but for the most part, we were all like pretty new to everything. I feel like the skills we learned in here, like using audition using Photoshop, and like everything else is like so helpful, like in the real world. And I feel like this class gave me like so much like technical skills that I like, never would have, like, known about before. And like, even though like if you can like search things up on Google, and you can like go on YouTube, it's not really helpful unless you actually have like a project you're working on. So the fact that I was like, able to not only learn those skills, but experiment with them was really helpful.

Dhruv: I think I learned like how to learn and teach from other people a little bit better, you know, like, because, like, I feel like I couldn't learn those skills. On my own. Like, I was curious, I could Google it. But I think that like applying it in the group setting is what made it really made me like feel like I was actually able to do this things like use them like. Well, like I don't think I would ever say like, oh yeah, I can use audition if I just was using it on my own at home. But you know, after like running an interview with you guys and being like, oh yeah, this is how you do this are like, figuring out new stuff with grace. Like when we're at like trying editing the homecoming episode stuff. Like, I feel like I'm competent. Now. Like, I feel like I know it.

Delisa: I really liked how we got to like, we had like ideas that we learned from other podcasts that we listened to on Spotify, and were able to like, oh, this will be so cool. Like, how can we add this into like our next episodes like using video or like the Hoco Titans things like you said, or like book bands was like completely new with like, using music throughout the entire episode. And I really liked like, how the more podcasts we put out, like the better they got pretty much.

Orelia: For me when I came in, I didn't know anything. So as I knew, every time I came into class, I was always worried that we're gonna do something today, and I don't know how to do it, and it's just gonna be so bad for them. I think by now by the end of it. Almost anything like the graphic, the editing interview, like how to set up a script, how to reach out to people in a way that it's not like you're not pushing them to do the interview with you like you're actually asking them,they all those things, I just, I've just learned a ton. And it's crazy to think about it because it's just been one whole year. And by the end for I feel like I'm more ready and prepared for the next year. So I'm happy about that.

Jordan: I have to say, my, this is weird, but my favorite thing that I've learned was on Adobe Audition, how to make like the waveform thing until multitrack would have learned how to do that. I was like, wow, this is for real. But like, I had no clue with any like how to edit anything. But I want to do because my little sister was like, Oh, I want to become an editor when I'm older. And I was like what type of editor, she was like editing like audio stuff because she watches this YouTuber that does it. And I was like, this sounds pretty fun. So when I like came to this class, when I was really excited to like learn how to do all this stuff, especially the multitrack my favorite thing.

Rachel: I would definitely say that um, I've definitely learned skills that have helped me outside of this class. I had never touched like audition or anything other than like InDesign and possibly illustrator from Messenger. So you being able to use audition, I figured out how to record something and like I worked with drew on how to remove like, some noise stuff for our Carrie curtain speech.

Dhruv: I pulled up google for that one.

Rachel: Okay. Um, so these skills that we've like, learned will definitely, like, they're not just things that we can use in this class, there's like applications outside.

Delisa: So now that we're ending the year, how do you guys think you've improved from the very beginning to now?

Sofia: Um, personally, for me, I think the main way that I improved, like the way that I'm most proud of is definitely on graphics. I remember at the beginning of the year, Grace, like helped us with our first graphic. And then from there on, I would really like I always went to her and I was like, Grace, please help me with this. And I'm like, I would like to, like follow her format. And then the most recent graphic that I made with the like international night, that was like, mainly from my own like, ideas in my brain. And I was so proud of how it came out, because it was like exactly how it looks in my head. And it wasn't really following a certain format, it just follow like, what the episode kind of like aura was, and I was so proud of that, I was able to learn how to like, I was showing everyone to class, I learned how to make shades on the curtain, nobody cared. But um, yeah, definitely just learning how to use Illustrator more and kind of use my own creative. Like way with that, and then also definitely audition. Same with international episode after I learned how to like, incorporate stuff because I feel like podcast is a lot more immersive and storytelling with the sounds able to do and stuff like that. And when I found out how to incorporate that without making it sound like awkward or weird, I was so proud of it.

Grace: To clear things up of it. The grace that Sophia is talking about is Grace Peng our EIC for messenger. So I was not a graphic Master, but yeah, I can really see how Sofia improved, like, her international night graphic was actually so amazing. And like, I feel like the whole thing was like having more creative freedom and like, not just following like a sort of like framework. I think we I think as like a whole group, we grew out of like just following a framework and like, started like doing our own sort of like how we want to do our graphics, like how we want to do your episodes, and not just doing like a like the exact same thing we always did like for me one way I feel like I improved is I think sort of like Delisa touched on it with like our book bans episode how like, we started sort of working into incorporating like different sounds and like cutting in more clips instead of just having like, blocks of just audio.

Delisa: Yeah, because the book bans no one, previously before that, we would just like have a complete like interview. But for the book bans ones is the first time that we had like different interviews that we had to incorporate into one episode. And so that was like a lot of editing a lot of like sounds that we had to include. And so that was like probably my biggest accomplishment or like the thing I'm the most proud of. And also, I was in both messenger and podcast this year for the first time. And I really learned how to like talk to people and like, introduce myself and like, especially when it comes to interviewing people. And I really like how I like learn to work together with other people, and just like, know how to do small talk.

Caleb: I think the thing I'm most improved on was my boldness. It's weird, me being the editor of this class, and I still get like stage fright and you know, being scared to talk in front of people because I'm scared of like the comments I might get back, and that sort of thing. But I think as we went on through this year, interviewing people doing more episodes, I gained more experience, and kind of got more comfortable with the mic, and that sort of thing. But also kind of being trying to grow as a leader, as my first time ever being like in a leadership position. Really, so growing like with the class, but then also kind of keeping us on track kind of, you know, just being a better leader, I think that's the main thing I've moved on.

Orelia: I feel as a class as well, like just the kind of content or the kind of episodes we used to make initially was what we make now I feel like they're just more serious and they have more of a reason behind it in some way or the other. Like the first few episodes like they just had so much room for editing and the way we frame the whole thing. And then the reason why it's like the homecoming one or the book bands, all those just was they just seem so much more detail oriented and professional in some way or the other.

Dhruv: I think that it just in general like the way we record episodes to like even the like less flashy ones. Like the first ever episode we did was the Downey interview, like Caleb, Suhani and I went that we were sent out and like originally wanted Mrs. Evans to come with us to we were it wasn't possible we were like really nervous. I remember that. We like walked to his office we go in and like it took us like 10 minutes to setup. I was like and then like Suhani would have like a whiteboard and she like flashed at Caleb when he needed him to say something and it didn't help like either because like in the episode you could tell Caleb would look like anyway. And like all sorts of things and like it took us like 40 minutes and I was okay like you know, Caleb's great at talking and so it's Downey and stuff, but then we did it again. Just Caleb and I We did the same thing we walked down the same hallway like when no one else it's like we were in like we were set up like instantly we got like more info in like half the time it was just so much better it was like all the bad habits that we had are like going away and like just our process is so much more robust and so like really interesting thing but I'm really glad we did like the same episode twice.

Caleb: Yeah, I agree. Dt: What are some of your favorite memories and then biggest accomplishments in this class? Som: I think I could say this for mostly everyone this class but my favorite memory was definitely Mrs. Evans birthday because I remember we made this like Slack channel and then it was like we all like it was so nice being able to talk everyone in like a non academic setting because these are the only use Slack that like you know, like podcasts kind of related stuff. But for this we were all talking about like what's her favorite color guys what gets you to get her something like links everyone told me the stuffed animal I thought was really ugly but everyone was being so mean but then like I went out to go get the cake and then everyone's favorite color purple, I’m pretty sure it’s purple. And then um after that when we actually came in and we had that huge card we were like running around to get signatures from teachers and then we're like trying to fill it up and then like to Delisa showed me the messenger was like that was so full compared to ours signatures from teachers and stuff like that. And then when the actual day came we were like talking about like ways that we could surprise her I was like I shouldn't pretend like someone slapped me and then scream Dhruv’s name.

Caleb: No we were gonna put it on Jonah that he like passed out.

Dhruv: Sofia said that and I wasn’t gonna get top so I said like, what if we pretend Jonah died.

Sofia: A freshman. Yeah, and then like, during the actual in the actual celebration, I just felt like so much like we were a family which I do feel like we are a family um, after all this time. And then messenger had like a whole like party with like.

Rachel: People in a budget, we gotta love it.

Sofia: It was really nice. And I loved how Mrs. Evans treasured it and it was a heartwarming moment for all of us.

Suhani: Told to go to the back room.

Caleb: You guys kept whispering and I was like what are y’all doing.

Sofia: No one told me that we were going to forget that, we weren’t going to forget that it was her birthday. So I didn’t wish her happy birthday because I was like, so we’re all forgetting that it’s her birthday right.

Delisa: Yeah, I literally remember planning like us all standing up at the exact same time going to the back of the back, like robots and her being like completely weird out like what.

Suhani: We said, let’s start our work and she’s never seen us so motivated.

Rachel: Um, I would say my favorite memory goes along with the birthday party. But I, Mrs. Evans texted me one day and was like, can you make a graphic with like, episode seven point twenty-two. And I was like okay, with no possible idea in my head, what seven point twenty-two could mean. I was like okay. Later come to find out, It's a picture of her ultrasound. She that I made. And I was like, oh, and then, um, the next thing goes along with it. But it was. It was witnessed. It was I think was at a birthday party. And I think Mrs Evans had just found out the gender of her baby. And she's like, do you guys want to know and we all placed bets. And then we found out and then we just got so hyped.

Delisa: I like how like every girl voted girl and then it was a girl and we all liked cheered and it was very wholesome.

Caleb: Yeah, I’m still mad.

Grace: I think that shows like one of my favorite aspects of this class that like, we're all really close to each other and also really close to Mrs. Evans. I remember that one time when Dhruv got a speeding ticket and he he was so stressed and he kept talking to Mrs. Evans about it and she like calmed him down and she was like-

Dhruv: She actually calmed me down so much. I was like, well, Mrs. Evans I'm really stressed about this, but like, you know, it's fine. Like I felt better after talking to her. She didn't say much.

Delisa: I remember your court date too.

Grace: As for like a competition, and I remember we submitted a few episodes for like what was it? GSPA, Georgia Scholar Press Association. Yes. And we did win an award for that. And I'm also, personally, I'm proud of like, being able to have a vision and like, carry it out. Because I remember the first time I was assigned to, like, I had the idea, or somebody had the idea for like, Homecoming Titans that we cover that. And like, I was like, I really want to be in that group. Because I really want to record that moment where he announces the titans, and there's like, a bunch of cheering. And like, I was able to, like execute my vision in that episode. And it made me like, really, really proud and really, really happy, or ever.

Dhruv: I remember it was so cool. Like, Grace asked me to, like, come to the back for a second. And I like went back there. And she started doing it. And then she like, I just kind of sat back and she did the whole thing on her own. And it sounds like so good. And I was like, I'm telling you, like, you guys do not need my help.

Delisa: Yeah, to wrap it all up isn't specifically a favorite memory for me. But I feel like because book bans are split into like two groups, and like most of us are like on either one group or the other. I feel like after that, we all somehow managed to like, even if we were in different groups, we would all like help each other out. And I feel like it made us like so much closer. So that was like one of my favorite aspects of this class. But what are your guys's like favorite things that you hope for next year, or like what you're looking forward to?

Orelia: I personally am kind of excited to meet all the new people who are going to be joining the class, and seeing how, like from whatever we learn this year, how it's just going to help what we do next year and change everything that we do next year. So that's one thing and just kind of being able to spend another year with all of you.

Sofia: Yeah, I agree. Because like, it's gonna be definitely more structured and different from this year, because we know so much more now. And it's going to be not as like, not easy to teach the other staffers but it'll be like better for us because I feel like we'll have more of a foundation and it'll just be more exciting to like, actually execute the stuff that you want to do. Because you had that idea. You didn't know if you could execute it, but you did. And now we know that we can execute like anything you want to. But yeah.

Delisa: i’m excited for Caleb’s grad party.

Caleb: Invitation to see if it comes to your inbox. But even though me, Dhruv and Suhani will be gone next year. My biggest hope is that you guys continue to make really good content for Northview to hear. I'll still be tuning in, but I'm just like, take whatever we've learned this year into them and keep growing. And I think I'm really proud of you guys. Oh Mrs.Evans don’t do it.

Dhruv: I think even if like I won't even lie, I don't think I listened to a single episode after they came out. Listen, like I would like help editing each one. I'd heard each one like I always heard it was like, yeah, the release, like I just like worry about the next thing. But even if like I'm not gonna be here, and I didn't listen to one, I just want you guys to like keep growing on you guys. Like keep trying new things and stuff I want to like, tune in and be like, Dude, I don't know how we never even thought of that. Like, I want to be impressed. I want to like and I'm gonna I'm gonna keep tuning in. I want to see where you guys do next.

Grace: A lot of pressure making me in this we have a Google document to sort of write down all our ideas. And my main idea was to fill the gaping hole left in Dhruv Singh’s place. Dhruv honestly did like a lot of stuff. So I'm hoping that we can like yeah, because you're leaving the morning will be mean after we finish recording. Yeah, I think that next year, I really am excited to like teach new people other things and hear their ideas as well. And I also want to like fix some stuff with like our mics and like sort of standardize everything because I know this year, you're a bit disorganized, because like renew class.

Sofia: And I hope I just hope that I can carry on Caleb's confidence and Suhani’s kindness just got like a whole spotlight.

Grace: Caleb is trying so hard right now.

Orelia: Actually.

Delisa: Is he actually.

Caleb: No.

Delisa: So to all the people who are planning on joining podcasts next year, or who hoped to join podcasts in the future, what would you guys say to them?

Sofia: I would say

Rachel: Do it.

Caleb: Just do it.

Sofia: Don't be afraid of anything that you think might if it's different from what you usually do, if you don't know if you'd like, if you don't know you'll be good at it, because you never know, obviously, I didn't know what was coming from me when I came into this class. But I love this community so much. I love the atmosphere. I love creating episodes. And it's turned into what my biggest passion, so that could be you too.

Delisa: Yeah, I remember my freshman year, I only wanted to be in classes if my friends were in it. Or if I knew the people there, just so I was because I was too afraid, obviously, to join things that were out of my comfort zone. Not only classes, but also clubs. And for all like the incoming freshmen and sophomores, whatever grade you're in, don't be afraid to join. Even if it seems like we're all close. Like, it didn't really start that way. And I feel like if you go out of your comfort zone, you take that leap to join something that you find interesting could be a much better experience than you would have ever imagined.

Rachel: You, you may not think that you're interested in something, but just joining a class and realizing that, oh, wow, I really enjoyed this, and I want to do it in the future is a really big step. And don't be afraid to come join us we have a lot of fun. It may seem like it's a lot of work putting out a podcast, but you have fun doing so.

Caleb: Although like I want us to I want you guys to create really good content. But I would say don't get too caught up in the work that you forget to have the fun that we have in this class, like the just the bonds that we make. And like the just all the laughs that we had, I think those are a lot more meaningful. And although we can just even implement those into our podcasts and like the bond between us in the connection that we have is from those experiences in the fun that we've had.

Suhani: Speaking of bonds, I would just like to give a shout out to someone who isn't here. New members when you come into the class and for the first time that lump in the back of the classroom is Marcus.

Dhruv: Keep an eye out for Jonah.

Grace: Yeah, just try it because I think that one thing that brings a lot of people together is like, like listening to stuff, whether it's like music, or like the radio or something. And also, I would say don't be afraid if that people will like already be in their friend groups or anything like at the beginning of the year. We like barely even knew each other. But like, this class really brings you closer to other people.

Orelia: Also, one thing that I noticed and I would advise is that if someone tells you that something about your work can be changed in a certain way. Like don't be afraid of criticism. And like don't be afraid if someone tells you to change something, don't feel offended by like just actually try to implement it and see why they told you to do that rather than being scared about it.

Mrs. Evans: So this concludes our episode. Thank you so much for listening. For a transcript of this episode, head to the point of view tab on our website, nhsmessenger.org And follow us on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @nhspointofview for updates. I'm your host Mrs. Evans and this has been Point of View.

Across the Table - Changing Childhoods, an evaluation of the accelerated maturation of children

Jordan Anderson, Marcus Kim, Suhani Mahajan, Orelia Thottam, Delisa Troupe

Hosts Jordan Anderson, Orelia Thottam, Marcus Kim, and Suhani Mahajan discuss the shift from their childhood experiences to the ones they observe around themselves today. Listen on Spotify or Apple Music.

Suhani: Hello, and welcome to Point of View where we give students a place to listen, learn and lean in. We're your hosts Suhani,

Marcus: Marcus,

Jordan: Jordan,

Orelia: Orelia.

Suhani: And lately, we've been thinking about how we see kids and mind you, these are like middle school aged kids, that we realize they seem a lot more mature or appear a lot more mature, then we remember being at that age, and we wanted to talk about them more and actually share our observations.

Marcus: So if we're going to go off observations, in my neighborhood, there are a couple of middle school kids, right. And mind you, I was kind of a nerdier kid back in middle school. So of course, I wasn't as social in middle school as maybe some of the middle schoolers I'm looking at now. However, you know, sometimes on Friday nights, when I'm hanging out with my friends, and we get home at around, I don't know, 10:30, I see these middle schoolers out with their skateboards and their phones. And I could definitely see them passing as kids my age, I'm not sure. It's just how they carry themselves, what they do, the way they interact with their peers, and just some of the things that they say and do just make me question, “Oh, my gosh, these guys are like four years younger than me.”

Suhani: You kind of forget that too, because this weekend, I hung out with my sister's friends and when I was talking to them, it didn't feel like I was talking to you know, significantly younger children until I reminded myself, “Wait, some of these topics aren't really things that they should be or that I remember talking about when I was their age”. Like they're talking about really intimate relationships and they're, you know, bad mouthing some kids or you know, just like gossip, but this kind of gossip, at least I wasn't exposed to until like high school, and not until the later years.

Jordan: Whenever I see middle schoolers, I always compare how they're acting from when I was in middle school. When I was in middle school, I was weird. I was really weird and closed off. I was like a gremlin. But then when I see other kids that age, and they're acting like how I act now, I always find it interesting how we were the same age. Like they're 12, their 12-year-old lives compared to mine. I was like, more kid-ish. But now they act like I act as a 16-year-old. And I'm just like, “Okay, what are you doing differently that I didn't do? Or what did I do that you didn't do?” You know?

Orelia: It's also like, when I was in middle school I was in India. But when I was in middle school, the way we used to have fun, the way we used to hang out with our friends, and the way our school life was. When I see kids over here, when I see middle school kids, I’m friends with a few middle schoolers and I speak to them, and the way they tend to hang out or the way they spend their time, as in leisure time, it's just different. Like, it's similar to what I do with my friends now. Like, if it's going out at night, hanging out in the mall at night, and then coming back home or something like that. They're doing that stuff now, when I didn't have permission to do any of that stuff back then.

Marcus: I mean, of course, and this is all from the perspective of a semi-affluent suburban life, right? Like, of course, it would be different if we were to look at maybe like, you know, a richer area city or even like a more poor area of accounting or such, but seeing these kids grow up in similar environments as us, it just makes you start to question like, why is this generation suddenly more socially mature than I was? Right? And I think, to kind of, you know, point a finger, I would kind of say, I think it's because of the amount of exposure that they have to social media, right and just technology. Because, you know, with technology, information can be diffused, right. Like, with social media and technology, you know, like gossip and information, or maybe more adulterated content that, you know, some kids shouldn't be exposed to at such young ages happen to kind of come across their radar. And I don't think it's exactly a bad thing that younger generations are, you know, getting iPhones and iPads at earlier ages, but it's just something that us as a generation, like our older generation have to kind of look back and say, “Okay, well, how is this different from us? What can we learn? How can we guide them in a way?” I'm not really sure, but it's definitely the technology and social media that, I would say, is propelling younger kids forward a bit more.

Jordan: Like I can see kids having a phone for maybe security purposes and like when they go out so that they have contact with their family. But then I see 10-year-olds and 11-year-olds having Instagram, Snapchat, and I didn't get social media until seventh grade and even when I did, I was only following my family and only my family could see. And I didn't really show any other people because my family was like, “Oh no, that's your personal thing.” But now my sister's friends try to follow me on Instagram and it's weird because they're little babies in my mind. Even though we're not that big of an age difference, only four years, but they would do things and post certain things and I'm really questioning their thought process and why they're saying those types of things or like, why they're looking at that type of stuff, or acting like it.

Marcus: Like bro, you're like 12, chill. What do you have to do on Instagram? Like go and play hopscotch man. What are you doing on Instagram and Snapchat? Like, actually, what are you doing on Instagram and Snapchat? It's very easy to look at it very pessimistically like “Oh, this younger generation is being ruined by technology”, which is kind of hypocritical because we, you know, the older kids by half a decade or so, we also grew up with technology. But it's very easy to slip into that mindset of “Oh, wow, these younger kids are being ruined by technology.” So it's definitely a slippery slope.

Suhani: Well, I'm not trying to blame but I think what you were talking about, the exposure through social media being the propellant of this, you know, expediting maturity, is that the same things that we are seeing at our age, the clothing trends, the ideas, like, you know, how we hang out, if that's being posted on social media, and younger kids are also exposed to that, they get those same ideas without realizing, you know, there's a good five, four year gap between who they're seeing doing these things and who they themselves are. But now that they're copying, which, obviously, if you're exposed to something, and you like the idea, you're gonna adopt it as your own, there's less of that gap.

Jordan: And trying to fit in because they see it and they're like, “Oh, since they're doing it, that means I have to do it.” So even if what they're doing is not the right thing to do, they feel like they need to do it in order to fit in with everyone else around them and stuff like that.

Orelia: It's also like, when we had that kind of exposure to that kind of social media, we had parents filtering what we were seeing and how much time we were spending on it. But now with kids doing it, many times the parents are not even aware of the fact that they have those social media accounts, or they're lying to their parents about it and not telling them about it. So there's no filter to what they're watching or what they're getting exposed to.

Suhani: And the tricky part about social media is how much you can filter it. When we got social media at the beginning, I mean, five years does make a difference about how recent or how much information is already out there. So regardless of how many filters we were exposed to, there's only a certain amount of media that we can see. Whereas now there's like 20 times that, if not more. So there's such a huge variety of things that children can see and some of it's good, like Marcus said, and some of it's bad.

Orelia: And that’s the extent to which things are changing. Like they're getting exposed to more violent or explicit things than we were exposed to. If we were exposed to, on a scale from one to ten, if we were exposed to the 0.3 stuff, they get exposed to stuff that's equal to nine or ten.

Marcus: Yeah, I mean, I think to kind of take these ideas and form it into a thesis, I would definitely say that the growth of technology and how many, you know, connections there are exponentially increase as time goes on, right? So I think even though it has been, you know, five years, like, four, five, six years in between how we are behaving and how we're looking back. You know, you would say five years, and that's not a lot of time, but in terms of technology and the advancements and the amount of changes in internet culture that have happened. It's definitely not a reach to say that the landscape and technology and social media that we grew up with is completely different from how these younger kids are growing up. And you can be critical and say, “Oh, well, you're exaggerating it’s really only been four years.” But in four years, so much can change. Like, comparing internet culture now versus when I was in middle school, it's like night and day. Like, even just looking at stuff like the memes, right? Like memes back when I was in middle school were just slapstick jokes, and then now I'm looking at some of the memes and jokes that are being thrown around today and I don't even think I should be describing those jokes. But it's definitely, gosh, it's a completely different world from four years ago. It's four years. That's not a lot of time, but it's just so much has changed.

Suhani: So then other than social media, what other reasons could there be for, you know, some of these younger kids to be more mature than at least we remember being at that age, or, you know, knowing about these more mature topics.

Orelia: The environment that they're in, or like, what they're surrounded by, it's that as well. Stuff that goes on in their house or stuff that goes on in their friend's house and their friends tend to talk about it. Because at the end of the day, they are like 11, 12 year olds that are having to experience things that are not normal for them, or are hard to digest for them and they need to speak about it to other people. And when they do, your friends also get exposed to it and you don't know how many of them actually go home and tell their parents about it, to ask for help for them, even for their friends. So they're getting exposed to such kind of topics that they feel like, “Okay, all of this is going on with my friend, I need to help them out.” And they try to wrap their heads around it, and they read about it and understand from other people and then they just have a better idea about those kinds of topics.

Jordan: If we're talking about the environment, we also have to think about sometimes kids, they have to grow up faster. Like when it comes to taking care of your younger siblings or something, you need to be the more mature example for them. For instance, let's use an example. Let's say, parents, they work day and night, and they're not really home all the time. You're maybe like 13, and you have little siblings that are five or whatever. You have to be the so-called parent for them. Since their parents are working, you have to mature. Now they’re looking at you and they're gonna follow what you do, like follow in your footsteps. So you have to be the more mature example for them, which leads to the 13-year-old having to grow up a little faster than a normal 13-year-old should or would be.

Marcus: Speaking of 13-year-olds, someone brought this up a couple weeks ago, but looking back at the recent Olympics that happened. Some of those kids that were competing, like in the Olympics, like they're, like 12-13 years old, and they're on an Olympic stage. And that is commendable, right? Like you've achieved so much out there teen but is it really objectively better to have, you know, these kids being thrown into the world of adults at such a young age? Like is it objectively better to skip those couple of years where, you know, you would play outside and just have goofy, fun, ignorant, enjoyment with other peers your age. Some could maybe say that it's tragic, almost, that they've been kind of gypped of their childhood. But I guess it's all about how you see it. Because from one angle, well you're competing in the Olympics at the age of 13.

Suhani: I have to say, the thing about playing outside, I think that's how we remember our own childhoods. But if I think about my cousins who are like eight ish, right? And like elementary school, they're glued to their screens. So I think the whole childhood experience itself has been redefined. I don't know if my cousins go outside nearly as much as I did. I remember you know, going outside, actually, like picking up sticks and whatnot, you know, just like, like actually, you know, really doing random stuff because I had nothing else to do, you would see all the neighborhood kids out together because there was nothing to do at home. But now everyone has their own screen.

Jordan: Like the Ipad children.

Marcus: Like you see them out in public, and they have like, a leash backpack on them and they're like, on their crusty iPads with like, the big rubber case and they're watching Coco-Melon or something. But honestly, I think I can maybe pinpoint exactly when that transition happened, right? Because I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist but Fortnite. I sincerely think it's Fortnite that was the genesis of this, you know, difference in growing up right? Because I remember like, like you said, Suhani, I remember playing with sticks right? I remember some of my fondest memories in childhood were just walking out introducing myself to a random neighborhood kid and like throwing a stick at them. Or like climbing up a set of stairs, in my mind it was a really high set of stairs, but it was maybe like a foot up, and just jumping and then climbing back up and jumping off of it and pretending I could fly, right? And then Fortnite came around, right? And then we made that transition from, you know, playing outside with our neighborhood friends, to getting off the bus and saying, “Hey, do you wanna play Fortnite after school? Right? And then you could see the change in YouTube content, right? It went from more niche stuff to more, you know, daily “Let’s Play” content that you could definitely see a kid enjoying more, right? So I would say we, as you know, ‘04, ‘05, ‘03, you know, that kind of early 2000s timeframe, we were able to definitely get the benefit of, you know, the playing outside childhood and also growing up with technology, like almost a perfect balance. And now since technology is rapidly growing, these younger kids are growing up having less of that playing outside, and more of growing up in complete technology.

Jordan: Weird fun fact, when I was eight and my sister was four, we had a garage at this time, and my mom would take us outside to, you know, ride our bikes. We used to literally look for bugs on the ground, take our bubble gun and trap the bug in a bubble. Don't ask me why we did that. But we thought we were the most amazing, we thought we were part of John Wick or something, trapping bugs with bubbles. But now my sister stays in her room playing Roblox and I join her sometimes, but like, it's crazy to think that we used to go outside all the time. But I don't leave my house. Neither does she. She never leaves the house. And when she does leave the house, it’s to go to her friend's house. But then they end up playing like Minecraft, which they could have done if she wouldn’t have left. But they just changed.

Marcus: Let me just ask, is this a bad thing?

Suhani: Well, I don't know because my sister is, talking from experience obviously, is, you know, not this conventional younger kid that we're describing. She cannot sit still at home, like refuses to. In the summer, I remember when we first moved to Georgia, she actually rang a bunch of our neighbors doorbells and was like,”Hi, are there any kids here? Can I play with your kids?” because she just really wanted to make friends. And though we just moved, I think there's like 20 kids in my neighborhood, like, age ranging from my age to five year olds who know Ruhani. I am Ruhani’s sister, and they, you know, now come outside and play and they'll ring our doorbell and ask if she's available. So I think you know, it depends on who you are inherently.

Orelia: I was just thinking, how does this affect them? They weren't exposed to a portion of childhood that we were exposed to, like without technology. So how does that change, that when they grow up, when they are of our age or even older than us, when they go to that age, how is that going to affect the next generation? Just think that they've been exposed to more advancement in their childhood that they don't know this portion of childhood that we were a part of.

Marcus: Yeah, I mean, of course, when we say generations, we're talking about micro generations, right? Like, there is definitely a big generational gap between let's say, like millennials and Gen Z, and then even within Gen Z, they're micro generations like, early 2000s. and then late 2000s, or, like, early 2010s, right? There's a big difference in culture, right? So again, we are kind of young ourselves so we can't really say but I'm pretty sure if I were to, you know, throw a blind dart, I would definitely say that, with these next coming generations, rather than having a negative outlook like, you know, they haven't really experienced childhood, they've grown up fast. I think that with these younger kids that are coming along, right, you know, maybe we're when we're in college, when we're in college, looking back at upcoming middle schoolers, right? I don't know what will happen, right? But I definitely think that, at that point, technology will be advanced to such a point, you know, where maybe instead of playing outside with sticks, they'll be playing in virtual reality with sticks, right? So I think maybe that what we're looking at these middle schoolers now, it's kind of like the awkward phase where you know, it's right in between playing outside and right in between complete technological immersion, right?

Suhani: So it’s really transitionary.

Marcus: Oh, of course, that's what I think. Of course, I can't even tell you what will happen tomorrow, let alone in a couple years. I don't even know what will happen next period, right? So I don't know what's going to happen within these next couple of years.

Suhani: I mean, on top of that, you have to realize that we’re high schoolers. To some extent, we're also still kids talking about, you know, like a half generation difference of, you know, kids who are younger than us by five years. And we're evaluating their behavior and comparing it to us, though, you know, our parents consider us kids, probably people in their mid 20s honestly consider us kids. And sometimes I look around the school and also consider myself a kid.

Marcus: It’s really easy to take, like a critic's view and say, “Aren't we technically growing up too fast by taking these, you know, deep conversations about, you know, our own critiques on younger generations, like, is that not a form of growing up too fast?”

Orelia: Not really in my opinion, because we're just comparing something that we went through, and kids that see now, you know, they're not going through it, or they're going through it very differently. And because it's so induced by things that they're aware of, and most of us at our age we weren't, and in some ways, it's actually good, like, they're more aware of things, when they grow up, they most probably will have a better outlook and a more positive outlook towards things. But at the same time, they're getting more toned down and stressed out at this time, because of what they're exposed to.

Suhani: I think each generation will have its own, you know, different experiences and whatnot. I think it's just how you react to that, right? So these kids when they grow up, maybe they'll be talking about, “Yes, my childhood didn't really have a lot of going outside, but now I am, because I realized that that's something I want to do.” Maybe because they've only had one side of the spectrum, they’ll choose and they'll have that conscious decision making of, “No, I want something else.” We don't really know, right?

Marcus: But like, what is the spectrum, right? Of course, the definition of the two sides of the spectrum will constantly shift. Like what we think is, you know, again, like playing with sticks versus playing Roblox or Minecraft online. That's our spectrum, right? And in a couple years the spectrum might be, you know, oh, you're just playing Minecraft with your friends versus, you know, talking with them in VR chat or something. I'm not sure if you guys know what I’m talking about. It might be crazy to think that in five years, these middle schoolers that we're talking about might be sitting down and having the same conversation like, “Wow, these middle schoolers, they’re growing up way too fast”, right? Like, what if, five years ago, the high schoolers of then were looking at us as middle schoolers and saying, “Wow, these middle schoolers are growing up way too fast.” We're young, like you said, so I don't want to get ahead of myself. This conversation could be happening, you know, every couple years or so, right? Like maybe it's not just these younger kids. Maybe it was the same thing for us. Like maybe it was the same thing for the current college kids, right? Like I could definitely see us as maybe being a bit too reactionary in the way like, maybe this isn't the worst thing.

Suhani: Okay, but I mean, regardless, the people older than us, you know, kind of turned out okay. I'm sure we’ll turn out okay, in our own way. So regardless of what happens, I think everyone will find a way to cope or to fill in whatever gaps they recognize.

Jordan: I feel like it’s repetitive because even my older sister, she's in her 20s and She looks at me and tells me, “Oh, I didn't do that when I was 16. Oh, my friends didn't do that when we were 15.” Like each new generation is going to be, “Oh, we didn't do that. We didn't do that. We didn't do that”, like as time moves on- oh this sounds like a movie quote- as society grows and stuff like that.

Suhani: I think on that note, before we get too cynical, we should conclude the episode, so this concludes our Across the Table. Thank you so much for listening. For a transcript of this episode, head to the Point of View tab on our website, nhsmessenger.org and follow us on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook at @nhspointofview for updates and new episodes. We're your hosts Suhani, Marcus, Jordan, Orelia and this has been Point of View.

Book Bans - Into Darkness

Jordan Anderson, Jonah Chadwin, Rachel Everett, Caleb Smith, Orelia Thottam, Delisa Troupe

In the second episode of our two-part series, host Caleb Smith explores how book bans affect students and the authors who hoped to spread representation, connection, and understanding with the characters and experiences in their books. Listen on Spotify or Apple Music.

Ashley Perez: Out of Darkness was published in 2015. It received a Prince honor it won the Tomasi better Book Award. It won the America's Book Award. It was a School Library Journal and a Kirkus review Best Book of the Year. It was named by Booklist, one of 50 best YA books of all time, like, you know what I mean? It's been around, and so I think it was like, a bit startling because I think when I first wrote this book, I wondered, how will it be received? You know, will people be ready for it? And initially for the first six years, it was well received, you know, overwhelmingly in positive ways and only in 2021 did it start being banned.

Caleb Smith: Hello and welcome to point of view, where we give students a place to listen, learn and lean in. I'm your host, Caleb Smith, and today we are back with part two of our series on book bans, where we will dive into the implications behind the recent surge of book bands in America. Specifically, how it affects our youth and the authors who are working to help our students learn and grow through their books. Please note that this episode references sensitive topics, including sexual violence and racism, and may not be suitable for some listeners. This is author Ashley Hope Perez.

Ashley Perez: Out of Darkness is set in 1936. And it's a love story. It's about a Latina named Naomi who moves to this community in East Texas, from San Antonio with her two half siblings, so she has younger siblings, and she falls in love with a boy named Wash or Washington. One who’s black.

Caleb Smith: Wash walked the girl out of the yard and down the road away from the house. She could hear their laughter and wondered if he was telling this girl the same jokes he told her down by the river. Once they were gone, Naomi tore down the path into the woods trying to outrun the sob that was Connor’s throat. without remembering the steps in between, or the light in the woods, or the sound of the river. Naomi found herself in the back steps of Henry's house.

Ashley Perez: And this is a sort of the kind of relationship that has no place in this time and in this community.

Caleb Smith: Wash tried keeping his voice calm. But he felt his fear creeping in the stories he'd heard from his father's growing up days in the country. All the ways a black man could die.

Ashley Perez: And so they really kind of create a little family out in the woods, and it's a space of joy and possibility for her and for her siblings. But there are a lot of things set against them.

Caleb: Naomi didn't need to be told she felt safest in the room with the sleeping twins. She did not want to see her mother's empty face, her strange, swollen body drained of color. She did not want to be out in the part of the house where Henry walks.

Ashley Perez: Naomi has an abusive stepfather. And then the book leads up to a real event. The New London School explosion which killed 300 students and teachers, and that event triggers like a downward spiral for these characters.

Caleb Smith: On March 18 1937. A gas leak led to an explosion that destroyed the London School in East Texas. The school had cost a million dollars to build. It was located in one of the wealthiest school districts in the country. And yet a leak had allowed natural gas to accumulate in the basement, killing almost 300 students and teachers. This tragedy known as The New London School explosion is the deadliest school disaster in American history to this day. The content of Perez’s books mirror reality in modern day and in historical texts. The novel tackles racism, classism, and segregation during the 1930s. At the center there's a love story between Naomi and Wash. He reveals the challenges they face from sexual assault to overt racism and fear, real things that real people face. In fact, she writes most of her books with her previous students in mind. She writes about their experiences and their struggles in the same setting where she used to teach.

Ashley Perez: I was a teacher in Houston starting in 2004. And this book What Can't Wait is my first novel which is set in our school. It's about you know, it's about places that all my students recognize. And it was really focused on my students experiences, specifically, their feelings about how complicated it was to figure out how to help their families meet the needs that were coming up every single day, while also finding a way to navigate towards their own future. So college or work or whatever, out of darkness is the historical novel I wrote, for my students, the one I felt what will make them want to keep turning the page, what would make this matter to them. And it matters both because you start, you really come to care about the characters, but also because it shows aspects of our history, like a lot of people know about school segregation, as it affected black Americans. So having, you know, quote, unquote, colored schools, but a lot of people don't know that in places like Texas, there were three ways of segregating students, there was the well, the better funded white school, there was the quote, unquote, colored school. And then there was the Mexican School, which was not for people who were actually from Mexico, but for Latinos, or anybody brown, but not black, not white. And in places like San Antonio, by the time kids were in sixth grade, they were basically pushed out of school. So they were, they had, you know, huge classes, and they didn't have the resources that they needed to learn. And the whole goal was, basically to get kids to drop out. There weren't Mexican high schools there. So you have to be wide enough to go to the white school, or find another way, if you're going to continue in education in many cases.

Caleb Smith: Parent associations or school boards advocate for banning books, they take away real experiences that students may have faced, or will face, they take away literature that is meant to educate in a safe space for open conversation. They take away students’ rights to learn about the different circumstances that people live through, and these students deserve to read literature that they can relate to.

Ashley Perez: To think about all the times that I walked into our high school library with my classes and worked with them to find books, and how excited my students back in 2004 would have been to find these books. It really makes me…, what do I say? I'm not very good at being angry. I don't do anger. It makes me really sad. It does, but it also makes me feel indignant, because we've worked so hard to bring more representation, a wider range of experiences, more of the untold stories into high school libraries, and these actions are all about pushing back on that progress. I know as a teacher, and as a parent that students are the ones that are harmed.

Caleb Smith: Out of darkness a novel by Ashley hope Perez, a Latina author. Was one of the novels targeted or removed in Georgia, Utah, Virginia, Ohio, Indiana and Texas. It had challenges in Missouri, Oklahoma, and Kansas as well. The book was first banned in Texas schools when Kara Bell interrupted a school board meeting to voice her opinion on the now controversial book. She read a passage from the book pertaining to sexual content and explained how it was unsuitable for kids to be reading. She finished her argument by stating that the school board should focus on education and not public health.

Ashley Perez: And the passage that gets read over and over from my book, as proof that it shouldn't be in schools is about a Latina, arriving to an all-white school on her first day. And it's what the characters that the kids in the class are thinking about her. I'm not endorsing that perspective; I'm showing that it happened that young people had to endure those circumstances and somehow find a way to maintain their dignity at the same time.

Caleb Smith: Miss Perez is not the only one who has fought back against the book bans in the most diverse high school in the state of Missouri, North Kansas City. 10 students condemned their districts and the Northland parent associations attempts to ban books, many of these associations author Perez is familiar with.

Ashley Perez: So there's a bunch of right wing groups like No Left Turn in Education, Moms for liberty, there are some that are specific to Texas, and then there are tons of these some of them private Facebook groups and online groups were basically you know, spreadsheets where folks who are looking to signal I'd say their objections to certain identities, queer identities, non-white identities. They target the books as a way of sending a signal historically, book banning has been focused in banning in schools has often focused on you know, one or two texts, and they were very local challenges like a parent finds a book in their kids backpack and is shocked because books like that weren't in school when they were kids or whatever. You know, this is how like… There were times when authors like Judy Blume were being banned for talking about having your period. So, you know, there's been fights over what kids should read for a long time, but these are really different because it's actually not about the books.

Caleb Smith: The Northland parent association is a nonprofit organization whose goal is to, quote, make a positive impact by protecting our children's educational experiences and fighting for American freedom in the classroom. For the students at North Kansas City High School, this meant banning books from their school, including All Boys aren't Blue, a coming of age novel by George M. Johnson's life growing up queer and black, as well as Fun Home a graphic novel about the author, Alison Bechdel’s childhood and complex relationship with their father.

Aurora Nicol: The NPA which is the Northland parent association, they came to speak at my school district's board meeting and they read some and the president of it Jay Richmond read excerpts from four different books. Well, he read excerpt from three, but then when it came to the fourth book, he just said he was refusing to read an excerpt from it because it was from a gay black man. And apparently that means he didn't have to read the whole thing.

Caleb Smith: Jay Richmond, the head of MPA, along with other supporters of the book bans believe in the right of parents to decide what is best for their kids. They advocate against topics like mask mandates, and teaching critical race theory, emphasizing the importance of choice.

Kate: The book banning was initiated by the Northland parent association. I had been following the Northland parent association for a while. They started gaining popularity last school year at the end, and then this summer, they held a conference that was basically just a bunch of these angry, far right wing parents like rallying together, and they were all upset about masking and critical race theory and, you know, exclusive topics in schools.

Caleb Smith: This is why it's so strange that the supporters of MPAA, the parents may not even have children in the school district they are rallying against.

Phedre: Because it's a giant parent association, the speakers that go and speak up at districts may not necessarily be parents of any children that are in the school district, Miss Kraft, went and spoke at my school district board meeting, but her kids are currently enrolled in a Liberty school. So they're just one giant association, and they go and speak about books and masks, because they want, they claim that they want to take care of their children and make sure that they're the ones that are seeing their children, because they you know, seeing what their children learn about and all that because they're the ones that have the right to take care of their children, and that is true, but the thing is, is that their actions don't match their words, because if they cared for their children particular, they would not overreach the rights of other parents, because that's one thing, one parent may not want their kid to read these books in particular, and that's fine for you to want that for your own child, but when you go into school board meetings, and you're like, No child should read all Boys Aren't Blue, because it's got, you know, it's got gay people in it, and it's like, okay, but other parents may actually want their kids to read that other parents may be indifferent towards that. And it is kind of hypocritical of them to go parents’ rights matter and then completely forget that other parents exist and may actually want their kids to read these things.

Caleb Smith: The NPA made a list of over 25 books, they want to be removed from the district. That same week, the North Kansas City School Board banned four of those books from their school libraries.

Aurora Nicol: I was so surprised to see those on a list like Perks of Being a Wallflower was on there, and I was just like, what nothing happens in these books except for sex or racism, like characters experiencing racism, and by that mark, there are quite literally like thousands of books that need to be removed.

Caleb Smith: In response students Aurora Nicole and Holland Duggan started a petition against the book bans which received over 1100 signatures, but Aurora and Holland are the only students to speak up against the banned books. During the North Kansas City School District Board meeting in November of 2021. 10 students from the North Kansas City High School expressed their opinions on the issue. These students included presidents of the woman's empowerment club, the Asian student, union, and more.

Aurora Nicol: I made eight copies so each board member could get one, and I gave each one of them one, and so I and it literally just said, like every person who signed it their name and then if they made a comment, and I'm guessing those board members probably threw them out, but I really hope some of them kept them.

Caleb Smith: North Kansas City High School is the most diverse high school in the state of Missouri. And yet, it's still easy for students to feel like they don't belong. When books such as all Boys aren’t Blue were banned. It excluded people who would have been able to identify with the author and remove the representation they deserve.

Lynh: A lot of times it was just like, I was identified just on my race and I wish I could have been more than just an Asian, like, girl at the school.

Caleb Smith When right-wing conservative groups such as the Northland parent association, or Mom's for Liberty advocated for removing these books on the basis that they include pornographic or sexual content. They're not acknowledging the true meaning or themes behind these books.

Ashley Perez: It also is clear that these are folks who aren't reading, even if they're not reading these books, they're not reading a lot of other things to, you know, they're not paying attention to the fact that it's not just authors with marginalized identities are writing about marginalized characters who we’re writing about, you know, frankly, about sexual experience or violence are those themes have been in literature since Shakespeare since Chaucer, way before that, the Bible which I've taught as literature at the university level, and I grew up in a Bible Church. So, I know the Bible really well. The Bible is full of graphic depictions of sex, right? Male genitals, incest, like really harmful sexual encounters, murder, like vivid, you know, not, we're not just talking about a mention that it happens. So, these things things exist even in books that we go to as a source of wisdom, the politicians and the political organizations that are pushing the talking points that provide a handbook on here's what you should say, I mean, they're all over online, you can find all the passages that some people think mean Out of Darkness as a terrible book for young people, and you can find the talking points, you never even have to read the book, to be able to make a challenge.

Caleb Smith: Rather than the actual content of the books. Several of the students from North Kansas City High School believe that the MPs decision to censor these books wasn't due to the content, but the refusal to center a white male perspective.

Lynh: If you can change the way that children learn, if you can change what they learn as well, then you have created a new generation of people who think just like you, they use the word pornographic as just the reasoning, but books such as like fences, the only mention of like pornography really in there is just the main character cheating on his wife, which I find it very interesting, because most of these book came from people of color. So I think it's just a facade to their real intentions of banning books that provide a different perspective on marginalized groups.

Caleb Smith: Due to stress from these books, the North Kansas City school district passed over the formal process of removing these books from libraries exacerbating the issue.

Lynh: They're getting really frustrated, because they're supposed to get notified that books are being you know, taken off the shelves, and they didn't get any notification. So it was really frustrating at the time, because it definitely showed that our district was susceptible to that kind of rhetoric that says, you know, oh, these books need to be banned, because this and this, but I am so proud of our district's ability to bounce back from that and to go, No, we're going to keep these books.

Caleb Smith: The books ended up being back on the shelves within the same month, the morning the North Kansas City High School students spoke up at the board meeting.

Aurora: They took away those books for a month in my library. But during that month period, when I you know, the petition was going, my friend Holland reached out to the to the ACLU. And the ACLU also threatened our district that they were going to sue them for removing the books. So they put the books back in the library, kind of the same day that my classmates and I went to speak to our school board.

Caleb Smith: Although the issue was resolved in that school district book banning is still a nationwide problem. For students without easy access to a free public library. Taking these books off the shelves could restrict them entirely.

Ashley Perez: And in fact, the students who most rely on school libraries for access like my students in Houston, some of whom did not have the time or resources outside of school to go to the public library and check out something if it had been removed from our library. So, it was really important that they could find things in the school library.

Caleb Smith: Of course, parents have the right to oversee what their kids read in order to protect them. However, district-wide book bans are not necessary for individual parents to protect their own children. They're already methods in place for parents to accomplish this.

Lynh: I have met some parents, I talked to some parents who don't want their kids to read that. And I think that those parents should just abide to like the regular library rules are already set in place where if you don't want your, you know, kid to read the material, then you can go on to the school website, and, you know, block your kid from checking out those things. That's always been, you know, I thing you could have done but these parents are completely ignoring that and that just speaks to how discriminatory they are.

Caleb Smith: By letting a group of people decide for other parents with their children can read. It takes away the rights of many parents to decide what they want for their children to have access to, and even when books are put back on shelves, it can have lasting effects. This can include both soft, and self-censorship.

Ashley Perez: Self-censorship can be more like a principal making comments to the librarian to signal we don't really need more books like X, Y, or Z, even though those books may be important for young people in the library, and the librarian’s job is to fill that library with the books that you all need that meet your needs, and no book is going to be for everybody, right, but if someone needs that book, it needs to be in the library.

Caleb Smith: Perez is an established author and a professor, she does not have to rely on her bookselling to make a living, but for many newer authors, book bans could be their downfall.

Ashley Perez: In my case, I'm a university professor. So I have a job that helps me feed my two kids, even if none of my books sell or I never get asked to do another school visit, which would break my heart, but I haven't done a single school visit since all of this started, because schools don't want to create controversies. Um, but I will be okay financially. However, there are authors who depend on book sales for a living and there are new authors like this is my third book, I have two books that are under contract, so I don't have to worry that my next book is not going to get published because of this book ban stuff. People who are publishing their first book and having it banned, could be the end of a career.

Caleb Smith: As parents and schools implement these bands, they turn a blind eye to the meaning behind these books, and their impact on the students that read them. Books like Maus teach important historical themes relating to the Holocaust, resonating with a great number of Americans.

Aurora: Maus is a story written and illustrated by Art Spiegelman. It is the only graphic novel to ever win a Pulitzer Prize. And it follows the story because it was originally presented between the seventh 1970s and 1980s in a series of chapters, but it follows the story of Art Spiegelman's father and his father's life as it was in the Holocaust from like, just before the Holocaust to when the war is over, and they were able to come to America. And it's, it's this really just, like, heartbreaking tale. And it's, it definitely, it plays on the trope because during the Holocaust, Jewish people were primarily associated with vermin. So like as an there are, there's a direct quote from Hitler in mouse that equates Jewish people with vermin. So Art Spiegelman takes that and uses that and all of the Jewish people in the book are depicted as mice.

Caleb Smith: If sweeping book bands related to these events continue, then the new generation cannot learn from their mistakes that we have made in the past.

Lynh: I'll admit, I had no idea why Jewish people were stereotyped as being like money, hoarders like that whole stereotype until I read Maus, and then when I read Maus, I was like, Oh, dang, that's why because when they were in the Holocaust, they had to use their personal objects and items, like that's why they had to be, you know, smart about how they got their money, because they needed to be because if they didn't, they wouldn't survive, and I didn't know that. Had I not read Maus, or had I not, you know, actively gone out and go, I want to read Maus or I want to learn more about this. If I had not had that mindset of wanting to learn, I would never have gotten, I'd never had deepened my perspective, and it changed what I knew. It's a very excellent book, and I it definitely made me like helped me learn a lot and it helped just paint this bigger picture because when we learn about Holocaust in our history classes, it's often this nebulous idea of terror instead of something personal and the book definitely brings how horrible it was, it brings it personal and it brings it close.

Caleb Smith: Fences. A play by August Wilson is centered around the life of Troy Maxon, and his complex relationships with other characters. It explores his thwarted dream of playing in the major leagues for baseball, as a black man and his conflicted relationship with his wife and son. Troy is a tragic hero, someone who displays how the long standing division between black and white affects future generations of black Americans. explicit content happens everyday in the real world. These books are in elementary school libraries, and rarely are the they in middle school ones. These books are meant for high schoolers, who may be months away or years from becoming an adult. Even if readers are not able to relate with these characters. Reading gives them the opportunity to learn from them.

Aurora: All Boys aren't Blue like I am queer myself. So that has a personal connection to me and I know that queer stories are very graphic and dark and that we don't we shouldn't hide those aspects of queer stories or you know, any other types of stories because it is reality that people face this and people should learn about it. These kids who don't get that type of support at home and don't get that type of support other places. can't access them, and so you know, school is a safe place to talk about those types of topics. In all honesty, like those types of topics should be discussed that schools like in our IB literature class, we definitely talk about like rape in books, and we talk about molestation and all these like hard topics because it's an educational environment where we can explain you know, the depth of them and what they represent, and I think that's an important opportunity that all kids should get out of.

Caleb Smith: Out of darkness, All boys aren't blue, Fences, Maus are just several of the hundreds of books being banned nationwide. They are under attack being called filth, disgusting, inappropriate, or pornographic, but books like these have had positive effects on so many students. Books like these allow students to relate to the characters to learn from their actions to understand the world from a different perspective. Books like these are more than the cuss words, violent explanations, or explicit material of the content inside. Books like these should be judged based on the intention of the author, and the message they try to convey through their writing. By keeping these books, it allows us as a society that is more inclusive and welcoming towards the decisions children make about their sexuality, race, status, religion, and identity. It helps us break the trauma and challenges children face today. When parents Facebook groups, school districts refuse to have these books in schools, when they call these books, filth, disgusting, inappropriate, and pornographic, they exclude people who may have experienced those things, they exclude people who may relate with the characters, and they take away the opportunity for students to learn.

Ashley Perez: It is a tragedy too, because there's a there's a lot of harm and hurt in this book. In spite of that, I hear from readers that they end the book both like heartbroken and hopeful because they see what that the family that Wash and Naomi and the kids make, should be given room in the world. Right, and maybe in this day and age, there's not the same level of negative response to interracial relationships that there was at the time, but there are other forms of love, that don't have space to thrive, and I think that it's really powerful to fallen in love ourselves with characters, and then want them to have space to grow and care for each other, and when they don't get to have that space. I think it makes readers and certainly makes me want to build a better world. I want a world where that love is possible. I want a world where young people get to matter and feel safe in their schools. And that's not the world that Washington, Naomi live in, and it's not the world that we live in either, and there's a lot of work to do.

Caleb Smith: As books are still being banned in several states and more soon to come. We hope the truth comes to light on what banning these books can truly do to society. Thank you for listening to our final episode on book bans. For a transcript of this episode, head to the point of view tab on our website, nhsmessenger.org and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook at @nhspointofview for more updates and new episodes. I'm your host Caleb Smith, and this has been Point of View.

Culture Shock - Hansel and Gretel

Jordan Anderson, Suhani Mahajan, Caleb Smith, Delisa Troupe

In this episode, staffers Caleb, Delisa, Jordan, and Suhani discuss their experience at a local new bakery, Hansel & Gretel. Listen on Spotify here!

Caleb: Hello, and welcome to Point of View, where we give students a place to listen, learn, and lean in. We’re your hosts,

Jordan: Jordan

Delisa: Delisa

Suhani: Suhani

Caleb: And I’m Caleb, and today we’re going to be discussing our experience at a local bakery, Hansel and Gretel.

Suhani: So, we went to Hansel and Gretel this weekend together. And I remember it was like our first fall day, it was chilly. And you walk inside, we went in the afternoon. And it was so warm and cozy inside the lighting was well warm, and it smells so sweet. And I loved the environment.

Delisa: I remember my first experience walking in- like I just love bakeries in general, it’s a very, like cozy feeling. And especially now that like, winter is starting to hit. It’s kind of a nice place to like to sit down and study and just relax like a break from school.

Jordan: One thing I definitely noticed about walking in, it was like the lighting gave me fall vibes. Like it was like a warm orangey like

Suhani: The vintage like.

Jordan: Yeah, vintage.

Caleb: The one thing that I liked is the different varieties of food and different little treats and pastries I liked that they added kind of to the whole aesthetic of the place. Everything was brought together by the lighting and everything, just like you guys said.

Delisa: Yeah, there are a lot of like different varieties and like desserts, which is like my favorite thing. And then not only that, but they had like hot chocolate and like coffee and like I’m pretty sure they had boba too. And they also had like shaved ice, which I thought was really, really cool.

Suhani: I also liked that since the store itself is really smart, it feels homey almost, because in the center, you have the dessert aisle and the counter, you have the patisserie section, and it really brings the whole store together. When you sit in that environment. You feel like you’re in the bakery itself.

Jordan: I like, it’s just it’s a really cozy vibe. Like, I feel like I can just go there whenever and do whatever and just relax. Like maybe family or like, with my friends or something. It’s just really, it’s like a relaxing place to go to, especially after school.

Suhani: Do you guys remember when we walked in, and we saw all the desserts how long it took us to like decide what to actually get?

Caleb: It was too much like I just couldn’t choose. There’s so many things that look super, super good. And I knew I wasn’t rich. So I wasn’t gonna buy everything. I know, we kind of shared what we had. And everything was pretty, pretty good so.

Suhani: Yeah, I remember because I, this wasn’t my first time but like every time is still a fun experience for me. So like my last time when I had the Grande Buttercream Loaf, and I thought it was really, really good. So I wanted to get it again. But obviously like there’s so many options that I like force myself to try something new. So I had the Honey Castella and maybe liked a little bit less than what I had before. But it was still nice, like, just tried things that I’ve never had before.

Caleb: I remember you giving me a piece and that was pretty, pretty dry thath that was drier than the Sahara Desert, I have to say so that was one of the least favorite things that we had that day. But I also got this, this donut covered in cake crumbles. And it was actually pretty, pretty good it nice and pillowy and soft. That was probably my second favorite thing after your little butter cream loaf that bread was really, really good.

Jordan: I got the, one of the things I got was the chocolate croissant, and I never had a chocolate croissant before. It was actually pretty good. But the funny thing about it, I don’t know why it was so funny to me. I didn’t know that the chocolate was like powder, it was like, I don’t know how to explain it but it was on the croissant. But it was also powdery and I put my whole hand on the chocolate thinking that it wasn’t gonna like leave, like a mark or anything. And I lifted my hand up and my whole hand was covered in chocolate. I don’t know why that happened. But like it was so good though. I’ll definitely get it again.

Delisa: I remember seeing you just wipe your hands on like ten napkins.

Caleb: The wipes were covered in just chocolate powder like they were completely, You got a little bit on your face too.

Suhani: I have to say I got the mango croissant and my experience was probably a little better than that. I didn’t anticipate fruit working that well in a croissant.

Caleb: Me either

Suhani: But I was pleasantly surprised.

Caleb: Me either.

Delisa: Yeah, I remember trying and it was so so good. Like usually I don’t like fruit in like desserts because like whenever I go to like an ice cream shop and I try like, like mango or like strawberry whatever inside or like on top of the ice cream. It’s usually like spoiled because it’s been out all day but like the mango croissant was really, really good. And it was like something I hadn’t expected to like.

Suhani: It was fresh and decadent.

Delisa: Decadent.

Caleb: Nice word choice. But I think my thing with bakeries is that I usually don’t go for the actual treats itself. I go for studying and just finding a nice peaceful place that feels great. And I feel kind of warm and just like a nice peaceful place for me to study and kind of do my work. Or just to find, just like an easy place for me to just kind of think and whatever. So I think that’s the best thing about Hansel and Gretel. I think one of the things is that I can go there to study in the future.

Delisa: For me, it was nice, like seeing everyone like, I remember sitting down, and like looking over the counter. And I saw like a couple of my friends who worked there. And then like, a couple of people that I knew had walked in and had eaten down on like a different table. And then best of all, was seeing like Mr. Pinto walk in with his friends and like, casual clothing. And it was like really funny to just see like him as a teacher, like, in a completely new environment.

Suhani: And for listeners who don’t know, Hansel and Gretel is right next to H Mart. So it’s so close to the school and it, it’s like a local treat that you get to bump into people from school there. And I think that adds to like, the fun ness of that environment.

Caleb: Yeah.

Delisa: I think there’s something like really, really special about like, all those like shops that’s near Northview. Because like, after an entire day of school where I’m like, just tired and I just want to relax, Hansel and Gretel is just like the perfect place to go. Like H Mart and like, all the shops nearby are really great. But like Hansel and Gretel is like a new cafe that just opened up. And it’s like a really fun place to just go and hang out with friends after school.

Jordan: Yeah, it’s like, go get your mind off of things. Just go after school with your friends, talk and not think about school for once, like after being in school all day. And normally, I don’t really go to bakeries that often, but I think I went to like one or two before this. But I like, I like my experience there It’s like, a calming sensation when you walk into a bakery. I don’t know, but like once I walked in, it was really calming and relaxing.

Caleb: Yeah, I love that I could go there. And taking a chance on a new bakery, because I usually go to kind of the same ones. I don’t like changing things. I’m kind of almost like not traditional. But I like going to the same places. I am kind of opposed to trying something new sometimes. But going there for this podcast and kind of going there and giving it a try. I had a good experience. And I’ll definitely go again, considering all the things that we have. We had such a good time there. And I was really happy to go there.

Suhani: I like that, we could go like as a group of four and it still felt intimate even though our group was pretty large.

Caleb: Yeah

Suhani: Because the cafe kind of like, as Jordan said, like, it was calm and it made us calm too. Even though you’ll see us in class, and we’re pretty lively bunch. It was nice to get together at such a location.

Caleb: Yeah, we had such a great time. And we definitely recommend this place that you go ahead and give it a try. But that go aheads, that goes to conclude our segment of Culture Shock. Thank you so much for listening. For a transcript of this episode, head to the Point of View tab on our website, nhsmessenger.org and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook at nhspointofview, for more updates and new episodes. I’m your host, Caleb Smith.

Delisa: Delisa Troupe

Suhani: Suhani

Jordan: And Jordan Anderson

Caleb: And this has been Point Of View.

Across the Table - Social Shifts

Jordan Anderson, Rachel Everett, Marcus Kim, Delisa Troupe

In this episode, staffers Delisa, Jordan, Marcus, and Rachel observe the shift in social interactions through the pandemic. Listen on Spotify or Apple Music!

Rachel: Hello, and welcome to Point of View, where we give students a place to listen, learn and lean in. My name is Rachel Everett.

Marcus: My name is Marcus Kim.

Delisa: I'm Delisa Troupe.

Jordan: And I'm Jordan Anderson, and this is Across the Table, where we will discuss different topics that affect our everyday lives.

In today's episode, we'll be covering how our social lives have shifted over the past year. Since March 2020, I can definitely say my social life and friendships have definitely changed. I've lost a few friends, I've made a few friends, and I kind of connected more with people over the past year, I’d say.

Rachel: I feel like my friendships dipped off. I never really hung out with people outside of school back in March. Then once COVID hit, the only person I talked to was my boyfriend at the time.

Marcus: Yeah, a lot of our, at least, going into COVID and our freshman year, all of our friendships were mainly in person, right? Like, our friends were decided by who we would sit by at lunch, who we were assigned to be seated next to in our classes. And depending on if you had classes with people or not, your friendships were like wax and wane. So once we were forced into COVID, right, into quarantine and not being able to see people face to face, it really started to challenge how you approached friendships with different people.

Delisa: I feel like rather than dipping out, most of my friendships just went virtual. It was hard not seeing them face to face, but at the same time, it helped me expand some of my other friendships. Like people who I may not have been super close with, I got close with just because we could talk to each other online all the time.

Jordan: I also have to say, especially with the friends that you only talk to in school, and you don't talk to outside of school, I definitely lost those friendships. Because we only talked in class, we would hang out in the hallway, and eat lunch together. But then when quarantine hit, I just stopped talking to them because I had no other way to talk to them, which was kind of unfortunate, but it just shows how not everyone you think is your friend is your FRIEND friend, if that makes sense.

Delisa For me, it was kind of the opposite. I've kind of found myself getting closer to some people who I consider my school friends. A lot of people who are at school, they only hang out with people who they're super close to or who are in their friend group. And I realized that when people are online, you interact with a bunch more people. Like through Instagram, you can just comment on their posts or DM them or whatever. So it was a lot easier to communicate with people who I wouldn't have hung out with outside of school.

Rachel: I think going off what Jordan said, like the whole thing of, maybe it was a test of who your true friends were. And I remember, and this might be a recent thing, but I remember it was the whole thing of- well, if they don't text you first, then it doesn't matter, or they're not your real friend. And also, I feel like that goes both ways. But it's also a test of- are these people your real hardcore friendships that could last for a while? Or are they just, you're at school, you're my friend, I want to hang out with you and I don't really have anyone else to hang out with.

Marcus: Yeah, I actually think that with these very superficial, just in-person friendly friendships that aren't too deep, I don't think that those are exactly a bad thing. I think that those, you know, superficial friendships actually have a place in our lives, right? Because not every friendship you're going to have is going to be very deep, lifelong and life-changing, you know. We've all had friends that we knew in elementary school that we don't talk to anymore and there's something about that, that helps us grow as people, right. So once quarantine hit and we were forced to truly kind of interact with the people we actually wanted to have deep friendships with, I think a lot of our social skills, right, like learning how to be able to adapt to different sorts of social situations and how to approach different people kind of started to fall off because, you know, we didn't exactly have to talk to, you know, these superficial friends.

Delisa: For me, it was lowkey kind of the opposite. Like during school, around freshman year, I found it really hard to engage in small talk. But I would say, this summer I got a job, and it’s in retail so it helped me interact with people of all different ages, races, etc and just know how to engage in small talk with them. And so I guess the pandemic, like using social media a lot, plus having a job actually helped me know how to interact with people who I wasn't super close with.

Jordan: Yeah, I feel like when it comes to, like you said Marcus, learning how to talk to people, for me, it was way harder to communicate with my friends online because normally we don't really text. I have many friends, like we're really close but we don't talk outside of school that much. Like, we'll hang out once every three months, literally. But during quarantine, when we did not see each other for eight hours, five days a week, for a minute, it was kind of awkward. When I text her I'd be like, “Hey”, and then she just says, “Hey”, and it'll be awkward, because we really don't know what to say, because we're not used to the online communication, back to back, every single day. And that goes for all of my friends too.

Rachel: The element of small talk, I think maybe Delisa was talking about it, was just like- I feel like it's so awkward to go up to someone, online, in an online aspect of just being like, “Hey, how are you?” And I feel like it's so difficult taking that first step, especially online. Maybe in a way, it's just like, I don't want to inconvenience this person, I don't want to bother them with a bunch of notifications. But when you're in person, you're able to pick up on social cues and be like, Oh, is this person busy? Oh, this person isn't interested in talking to me. And so I've kind of developed the thing where I kind of hate small talk. I mean, I get DMS from people that I know and like, this is by no means a call-out, and they’re just like, “Hey, how are you?”, and I'm like, “This is really awkward.” I don't know what to say because it'll just be like, “Hey, how are you?” and then it'll go to, “I'm good, how are you?” “I'm good.” and then the conversation will taper off.

Delisa: There were definitely a lot of times during the pandemic where not much was going on and so it felt like, even if I wanted to talk to my friends, I wouldn't have anything to talk about. Or even if I did text them, they wouldn't reply because everyone has their own thing that's going on.

Marcus: Yeah, so in AP Lang there was this very, very interesting topic we had to write about- “Is small talk relevant in today's age?” And arguments had to be made where, you know, you're kind of concealing your true intentions or you might come off as insincere, right? So oftentimes, you know, in the hall when you pass somebody, you kind of have to make a decision. Do I pretend like I don't see them? Do I try to wave? What if they don't look at me? What if I just look weird waving at someone who isn't waving back? So I think this element of small talk was completely eradicated for me in quarantine. And honestly, in a weird way, it kind of helped with my self-confidence, almost. It kind of taught me that I really don't need to, you know, pretend to be super friendly with my peers, but still maintain my friendships, right?

Jordan: Another thing when talking online, when you're in person with somebody, you can see their expressions. You can see, Oh, they're happy, they're sad or they're annoyed but online, you don't know. You can text someone, “Hey”, they can say “Hey” back, but that “Hey” can be an annoyed “Hey”, or a I really don't feel like talking “Hey”, or it can be like Oh, I'm glad you texted me “Hey”, and you really don't know. And that’s like what you were saying Rachel, how sometimes you don't want to be annoying. Because there's been times where I've texted my friends, we'll be having a conversation, I just feel like- even though they didn’t say they were, I felt like I was being annoying in some way. Like, maybe I should stop texting them and just wait until two weeks later to continue the conversation. But then at the same time, that person could get the wrong message if you stop talking to them, thinking that you're being annoying, but then they'll think, Oh, that I do something wrong? It's really confusing. It's just confusing.

Marcus: Yeah, it's kind of like when you see a message be left on read on Instagram, right? And, you know, they're different types of social medias, right? There's Instagram and Snapchat that, you know, tell you when someone has read something, or when they're typing. And then there's things like i-messages, where you have the option to show if you read something or not. And honestly, I think that the element of, you know, in social media, when it shows your status of Okay, I have seen this message, I think that adds another layer of complexity, right? So it's like, you send someone a message, and you don't see if they read it or not, that kind of gives you a peace of mind. It's kind of weird, but social media, my perspective on social media has definitely changed. Because, you know, without social views, right, without face to face, you kind of have to rely on any resource you get, right. So read recipients are basically the only type of contact anyone could ever have in online situations.

Jordan: There would be times where someone would text me and it would just be them responding to something I said, and I would leave them on read because it's not something I would respond to. But then when someone does that, to me, I’ll be thinking, Man, did I just mess up? Are they mad at me or something? So, like I said before, it's confusing. But you just have to base your knowledge on your own intuition sometimes.

Rachel: That kind of brings into the whole thing of this rising of tone indicators. Are you all familiar with that? Like a little slash? And then there's a letter? I feel like, maybe, because we've gone into quarantine and haven't had these social cues, I feel like that might have been one of the reasons why the tone indicators have increased. Like, with what Marcus was saying, with peers, with social media, and having those read receipts, is also very important.

Delisa: There's been a lot of times where someone's left me on read or ignored my messages and it has made me feel insecure or start to overthink, Oh, are they annoyed with me and stuff like Jordan was saying. But I realized that I also do that to people and usually it's not because I'm annoyed with them or anything like that. It's because, especially through the pandemic, I had a lot going on, I wasn't really focused on every single person I was talking to. Sometimes I would read a message and just forget to respond completely. So being able to see that different perspective that, Oh someone may leave me on read, they might be annoyed at me, but also realizing that- wait, I do the same thing to other people and it's usually not because of that reason. So talking to my friends about it and being like, “Hey, we haven't hung out in a while, what's going on?” And just having that sort of open communication has really helped me stay close to my friends.

Marcus: You know what? That reminds me of something, right? Remember, before quarantine, if someone would DM me and I looked at their profile, and I asked myself, Who is this? So then you kind of have to click on their profile, see their tags, and I'm like, Oh okay, I know who this person is. But after quarantine, right, when we had to, you know, shift to online and you know, we would play games with people, we would meet strangers online, I feel like I've become more comfortable with opening conversations with people I don't know. I feel like I don't need to know the context of who this person is, who their friends are, to be able to make a good conversation, right? You know, I see that we both like the same common interest, okay boom, I can make a good conversation off that. So it's definitely helped me in my, you know, communicative arts, right, I'm able to, you know, have deep conversations- or maybe not so deep, but have conversations with people that you know, I don't really know.

Delisa: And I realized that, over the pandemic, it was extremely hard for me to open up and have deep conversations with my friends, which is another reason that it was really important to have open communication with them because I know mental health struggles and school and all of that could be even more stressful when you're not seeing anyone and you're literally sitting alone in your room on your desk all day just doing work and not having anyone to hang out with or talk to. So yeah, it was really hard for me, I think I've become a lot more reserved, and a lot less willing to talk about myself, just because of the pandemic.

Rachel: I can definitely relate to that. Having that whole thing of trying to communicate with people and maybe you overthink what you're doing and the whole thing of overthinking, Am I annoying this person? I feel like that also applies with being able to communicate with people with your mental health.

Jordan: I also feel like, having to communicate, people might have brought some friendships closer, because I know one of my friends, we talk every three months, for no weird reason. But when quarantine started, we started talking more, especially freshman year, because she was in lots of my classes. And we started talking more, and it actually brought our friendship a lot closer, because now we are a lot closer than we were this time last year or two years ago, three years ago. And I definitely feel like having to talk to people online gives you better ways to communicate, like Marcus was saying, it helped with communicating and learning how to talk to people without being afraid to, because in this time period, we definitely really can talk to people.

Delisa: And one thing I've noticed is that, when I'm introduced to a friend of a friend, usually I won't get super close to them unless we have that one-on-one hangout session. And it's the same thing with online, you're talking or typically talking to someone, just one on one, and that can help you grow closer, when you're not surrounded by other people, you know.

Jordan: Without other people just watching you, it's not easy. Sometimes it can be awkward. Like, one of my friends, he introduced me to one of his friends and we were on a FaceTime call and he left the call and it was just me and his friend. And it was really awkward at first because I had no clue who he was and we were just sitting there in silence the whole entire time. But eventually, we started to get in a smooth flow of a conversation and it became less awkward. And I like how, when the other person leaves, it helps you be more comfortable because it's like having eyes watching you or, you knowing someone's listening. It's awkward because you can't really be yourself in a way.

Marcus: And also for me, when I shifted to talking with people online, you know, we've talked about how we can't see, you know, facial, you know, tone indicators and a lot of difficulties came into fruition after, you know, being online and not seeing people face to face. And you know, as Delisa said, when you get left on read, you get really self-conscious, right? Like, Oh, did I make this person mad? Did I say something wrong? And surprisingly, through quarantine, I think I've actually matured to be able to actually express those feelings, right? So after coming back to school, whenever, you know, I talk with a friend, sometimes I'll just say, “Hey, how's everything? Am I doing anything wrong? Are you happy with our friendship? Is there anything I can do to better myself?” So I think that's helped me mature as a person and not only in my friendships, right? So it definitely helped me, quarantine definitely helped me take that step forward, to be able to, you know, take the first step and try to make things right with a friendship if you think something's off with it.

Delisa: I think the transition from online to school was super impactful for me because people who I got close with over online, suddenly I could see them in person and talk to them. And it was really fun because suddenly I have all of these new friends that I would never have talked to before. So I think coming back to school and seeing everyone in person was much more enjoyable after an entire year of being online.

Rachel: But with what Marcus was saying, with the online friends and the social cues, I definitely found myself appreciating online friendships a lot more. I think I would say that I had more online friendships than in-person friendships. Of course, we weren't actually in person. The fact that I didn't have to worry about overthinking all of these social cues almost made me ignorant, but in a good, ignorant way. I was able to just enjoy the conversation and talk with all of these people and I was able to make plenty of friends because I didn't have to worry about if they'll like me or if they think I'm nice or something. I'm just able to play games with them, we can hang out and stuff.

Jordan: And another thing about online friends that I really like is that when you're meeting online, you don't know them, right? They get to know you from scratch. Because when you're meeting people from, let's say your school, let's say you're meeting a friend of a friend, they most likely know something about you that they heard from someone else, they don't really know you for how you would describe yourself. But online friends, you can start off from scratch, you can build up a relationship with them, and they can build how they perceive you as a person without having that background knowledge of, Oh, she did this so she must be like that. And I definitely feel like online friends, in a way, it's a nice way to start over.

Rachel: Absolutely. You don't have to worry about what someone might have heard or a rumor that might have happened. They'll just know you by whatever you present.

Marcus: Yeah, that's also really difficult since, you know, Northview is kind of a smaller school, right? So everybody kind of knows everybody. So, definitely over quarantine that really helped me, you know, interacting with online people that helped me become more self-confident in myself, right. I remember, before, it was really difficult, you know, people would say bad things about you and you would care a lot about what people said. But then, after quarantine, after having, you know, a lot of time with yourself and a lot of time with people who know nothing about you, I kind of learned to be able to take those things in stride, right? And of course, not everyone's going to believe everything that they hear, and actually, some of my closest friendships have actually started when, you know, they told me “Hey, I heard this thing about you, but I didn't choose to believe it and it sounds like that thing isn't true.” And that, you know, it really showed me over quarantine that, not only I, but a lot of other people have matured as well.

Jordan: Yeah. I just feel like this is one big experience that tests our maturity, how we feel about ourselves, and mainly how we feel about ourselves. Because I know a lot of people, this whole experience of being online, a lot of people kept to themselves, because you were at home and stuff like that. So it really just helps us learn more about ourselves, and just stop caring what other people say. Because at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what other people say because they're just saying things to be saying things 90% of the time. It only matters what you think about yourself, because, at the end of the day, it’s only going to affect you, and not the people you sit next to in class or the people you bump into the hallway.

Rachel: I definitely think that, now that we've come back to school, I mean, I'm not that involved in the drama so I don't know, but I feel like I've gotten the sense that there's less drama, less rumors, everyone seems to be keeping to themselves or their small group because they realize that it just doesn't matter. You can be who you want to be and just kind of chillax. I definitely think coming back to school has been a good opportunity to understand all of these things and see how quarantine has really changed you.

Marcus: You know, it's an interesting thing, right? You know, time seemed to go by so much slower when we were younger but you know, as we got to middle school, the year started to go by quicker. So I think quarantine really gave us a good sense that, hey, a lot can happen in a year and you can change a lot as a person- not only yourself, your maturity, your social situations, a lot of things can change in a year, right? So after seeing, you know, a whole gap of a year, seeing those people you remember from freshman year, and now in junior year, at least for me, it's really cool. You know, I didn't give people enough credit, right, you know, people have matured, people have changed and I think that's probably the best thing that's changed to help my social life, right?

Jordan: Another thing, when we came back to school, it was really fun to see how people changed. When you know someone from seventh grade, how they acted then, and now you see them now, you’re just like, Whoa, that's crazy. And even though people have said that to me personally, I don't think I've changed that much. But people have definitely said, “Oh, Jordan, you've changed a little, like you're not the same not in a negative way but in a positive way. You're not the same person you used to be a year ago.” And like you said Marcus, it shows us how much things can change in a short period of time. It’s like a reality check to be honest.

Delisa: I feel like for most people, the pandemic was an opportunity to explore who we are separate from our friends and everyone else around us. So it really gave me the opportunity to, like Marcus said, and like you said, grow as a person.

Rachel: I think this whole experience of quarantine, not involving COVID just like the social aspect of it, is really going to affect us. I mean, maybe in a good way, maybe in a bad way, but it's definitely changed us in a way.

Marcus: Yeah. And who's to say, you know, it might seem weird to say but who says bad change is a bad thing, right? Maybe losing some friends might, you know, actually turn out for the good and you look at it in a future lens, right?

But yeah, thank you so much for listening. I’m Marcus.

Rachel: I'm Rachel.

Jordan: I'm Jordan.

Delisa: I'm Delisa

Marcus: And this was Point of View. Thank you for watching.