Across the Table - Our First Year

Jordan Anderson, Rachel Everett, Delisa Troupe, Suhani Mahajan, Sofia Mang, Dhruv Singh, Caleb Smith, Orelia Thottam, Grace Yang

In this episode, hosts Delisa, Grace, Sofia, Rachel, Orelia, Jordan, Caleb, Suhani, and Dhruv discuss their favorite memories, biggest accomplishments, and hopes for next year as the first official year of Point of View comes to a bittersweet end. Listen on Spotify or Apple Music. 

Delisa Troupe: Hello and welcome to Point of View where we give students a place to listen, learn, and lean in. I’m your host Delisa Troupe, and today I’m sitting with Grace, Sofia, Rachel, Orelia, Jordan, Caleb, Suhani, and Dhruv, some of the hosts of podcasts as this class comes to a bittersweet end. So the first question that we’re touching on today is how, what was your first impression of each other and the class like, think back to like your first day of school. What did you think of it?

Sofia Mang: It was a little bit awkward, because it was such a small class and some like not many of us knew each other. But I do think that it was kind of nice getting to know each other on the beginning because it was like, those icebreakers were kind of funny, and especially like the thing with Dhruv. Or used to call him like Drew with a v. I don’t know.

Delisa: So I kind of like started the class because Sofia told me about it. I had no idea even existed. And she was like, can you please come? I don’t know, and she was like, begging me. And at the time, I was an intro to art. But I decided to drop that because the class was like mostly freshmen. And I decided to join this instead, and I’m really glad that I did.

Rachel Everett: I remember for like, oh, was it like first week or two maybe three, Caleb our like head editor just was not in this class. He was not here for like, the longest time. And it was, so we got past that. Um, but I certainly remember like how seeing it was, it was an interest group. And we were all like, you know. Like sometimes in a class, you can all see people that like, oh that makes sense they’re in this class. Or like they fit like a stereotype. We all come from like, different backgrounds. And I kind of like that.

Suhani Mahajan: I just want to say y’all terrified me, because I didn’t know anyone but Dhruv, and Rachel.

Caleb: And me.

Suhani: No because I just did not know you until this year.

Caleb: You knew of my name right?

Suhani: You know, that’s a question mark. But Rachel was like a comfort like, life saver thing. And Dhruv was like, oh that’s that kid from freshman year. And then the rest of y’all were like, og my god, they’re so close. And I had no idea if I’d be able to like mesh with everyone in the class, especially since most of y’all are juniors, and I’m a senior.

Grace: I don’t know, I did not think we were that close. Like on the first day, because I didn’t know anybody because Marcus came later. He was the only person I knew, and even like Marcus came later and he only talked to me a few times he’s like clingy. And so I don’t know, my first day I saw like, I think it was Rachel, Suhani, who were in here. And I was like, looking around the classroom. And I was like, is this journalism? And they’re like yeah, and I was like oh I thought it was a different room or like a different title. Because I thought, I signed up for messenger, like the writing portion. But then I like got assigned to this class. And I was like, did I sign up for this? I’m like, I don’t think I did. But Mrs. Evans was talking about how like, we could like edit audio and maybe do videos. And I was like, okay, I guess I’ll stay. And like, because there’s too much of a hassle to go to my counselor, but like I’m glad I did. Because I agree with Rachel that like, it brings in a lot of people who are like in different social circles, and like in different grades as well. So it’s like really interesting to see how everyone’s doing and like, because everyone brings a different opinion. I feel like which is really interesting to see.

Delisa: Poor Jonah, the only freshman.

Sofia: I kind of like to call it, I told Delisa this the other day and I was we’re kinda like Breakfast Club. Yeah, have you guys never seen that movie?

Rachel: No.

Sofia: I’ve seen it. Jordan, how do you feel being like the only sophomore in this class?

Jordan: At first I was terrified. Because I didn’t know anyone. And I do really, I’m like really bad in situations where I don’t know anybody. So like, I’m quiet, I still am. But like outside this class, I’m like a hot mess but, we’re not gonna talk about that. Like I was like, really scared at first because I was like, “Oh i’m probably gonna do terrible. Everyone’s probably gonna yell at e if I mess something up.” But like eventually, I was like okay nice. This is like my favorite class. Whenever I’m stressed about chemistry I’m so happy, this is my next class because I can just like relax and think about happy things.

Delisa: No, this is kind of off topic, but you know Mekayle Upton. So I’m wither her in messenger,and she’s always talking about how you’re always talking about podcast.

Jordan: I love this class. This is the only reason why I come to school. Because if I didn’t have this class, I wouldn’t be in school 90% of the time.

Sofia: I’m kind of curious, because Orelia you’re also new to the school this year. How did you hear about this class and like find out.

Orelia Thottam: So, I was supposed to go to messenger too, and I was here Sophomore year. So that’s the class that I signed up for. And I was supposed to be a photographer for messenger. But then my fourth period was clashing with German, so they put me in this class. So my counselor was like, oh so you have to choose between journalism and German. And I was like, no I want both classes, I’m not choosing between either though. And she’s saying we’ll see about it later. And the next day she emailed me saying it’s only messenger so journalism four is fine. Okay, so I thought it was another messenger class. But I didn’t remember that over the summer, I did sign up for this class. So it was going to be the same class with Messenger, like it’s going to be the same thing. And then when I come on here, there’s like 11 people in this class. I know there’s quite a lot of people in messenger. Okay. And then they told us this is broadcast, I was thinking there’s no point in changing so they just said it’s okay. It’s not like a knew people in messenger anyways so it was okay.

Suhani: It’s all a learning process.

Orelia: Sure and it wasn’t like I knew anyone in messenger that was like, if i change, I’d be like, with my friends. I didn’t know anyone in this class nor that one. So I was like, I’ll have to meet new people. So I'll just in this class.

Delisa: And we kind of already touched upon this. But the second question is, why id you decide to join? And I wanted to ask Caleb, this because you technically did not have a choice. So how did you feel getting assigned senior editor podcast?

Caleb: I had worked on it the previous year, my junior year with Noelle. She had given me, her and Mrs. Evans and like Jennifer, the messenger editor, at the time gave me a chance to kind of work on some podcasts, kind of see what that was kind of like and then ended up loving it. And I also applied at the end of the year to be either like opinions editor for messenger, or like the multimedia, that sort of thing like the podcast editor. And I was kind of scared because it'd be our first year as a class. And I didn't know what to expect. But that kind of like the media and the audio aspect, I was really intrigued about it. Because I mean, I kind of started doing that sort of thing. During like 2020, and like COVID time, so I kind of was interested in that. And then I ended up loving it and kind of saw potential as a class.

Rachel: I’m very similar to Caleb in the sense that I was chosen as one of the junior podcasts editors alongside Sofia. So I wasn't, I was technically given a choice. But it was less of a choice and more of like, come on to the class. And I'm very glad I did. Because I ended up I thought I had wanted to go into like writing journalism. And I realized that my writing is probably not as strong as I thought it was. And now I like want, I'm looking at colleges, specifically for broadcast journalism, because of how much fun I've had in this class. And like, how much I just really found a passion for it.

Sofia: Yeah, just like Rachel. Obviously, I was also assigned as Junior podcast editor. And it was unfamiliar to me, but not as unfamiliar as it could be for Caleb and Rachel, because in my freshman year, I wasn't in Messenger or anything like that I was in it was like this, like one year class. It was really random. It was like a sports class. And we basically made videos and like interviewed athletes, and it was kind of like, a thing. So I was like, familiar with like, editing and like video and stuff like that. But I didn't enjoy like writing in the messenger. But then after I joined this class, I really liked the dynamic that came with this class. And yeah, I'm really glad that I stayed.

Dhruv Singh: I don't even know like the reason I ended up in podcasts, or broadcast journalism in the first place like I was never even tangentially related to like journalism kids. Like I was never in Messenger or talked to Miss Evans before this year. But I think that at the end of my junior year, because I was doing so much like video stuff with bolt and like the end of the AV program and stuff that is Pope recommended me to Mrs Evans. So then I was, I think it was like sneak peek or somewhere like the last day of school junior year, I came into like, say hi to teachers. And Mrs Evans emailed me even though I never talked to her before. She was like, “Hi, I have a class next year called like, broadcast journalism. I think that you'd like it. Do you happen to be at school today?” I wasn't even supposed to be at school, but I was like “Sure. Okay, I'll come by.” and then three months later, I ended up in here and I'm really glad I did because I got to learn like so much because like I I think that like I helped a lot with like the technical aspect for like the audio and recording editing and all that. But like, you know, I I really didn't have that much experience with the audio editing performance. Like I like you guys seem to think that I'm like, experiencing this I was kind of making it up as I went. No, and I'm so glad I did.

Rachel: Towards the beginning of the year we were all just calling out Dhruv's name like “Dhruv!” so he could come help us.

Dhruv: Dude that happened like ten minutes ago.

Suhani: Now it’s become Dhruv Singh and now it’s a command.

Grace: I remember one time I was editing something, I asked you for help to do something wasn't working right. He just pulled up Google and I could have just done this myself.

Dhruv: Listen, half the skill is figuring out how to figure out stuff when you don't know it. Okay, so that's what I say.

Delisa: And touching on that, other than Dhruv, who clearly taught us all the technical aspects of everything. What skills have you guys learned from this class?

Grace: Not to tute my own horn anything. Like I also did audio video to like, but like, I really only edited like sort of video. And I guess using platforms like Adobe Audition, sort of like to edit audio was something we learned like like cutting audio and like using fades and stuff like that. Like, I think one of my favorite days was when Rachel had the, like the Photoshop and Illustrator lesson because I, I think making graphic design is so cool. And like, and like it was, it was really fun, even though it was like frustrating at times. Because we were cutting out like Melissa and Megan or something like sometimes you'd cut out like their arm or something. Like it was I think it was really fun, like playing around with Photoshop and Illustrator and like, being able to make graphics and stuff like that is something I really like, like learning. And besides that, because I was completely new to like this whole journalism thing. So I didn't know how to like write interviews, like features or anything. So I think that gaining that like writing skill was also something really important. I feel like I learned.

Suhani: Like as a messenger kid, I love how different storytelling can be in broadcast journalism and how you have more choice with like, stylistic, like, stylistically how you get to tell that story, because it's not just like, interview, transition, interview transition, kind of how we do in Messenger. And I think that's been my favorite part. Because I feel like I've grown as a storyteller, how do you feel Delisa?

Delisa: I kind of like how we all grew together, like, especially in the beginning, some of us knew how to do things, but for the most part, we were all like pretty new to everything. I feel like the skills we learned in here, like using audition using Photoshop, and like everything else is like so helpful, like in the real world. And I feel like this class gave me like so much like technical skills that I like, never would have, like, known about before. And like, even though like if you can like search things up on Google, and you can like go on YouTube, it's not really helpful unless you actually have like a project you're working on. So the fact that I was like, able to not only learn those skills, but experiment with them was really helpful.

Dhruv: I think I learned like how to learn and teach from other people a little bit better, you know, like, because, like, I feel like I couldn't learn those skills. On my own. Like, I was curious, I could Google it. But I think that like applying it in the group setting is what made it really made me like feel like I was actually able to do this things like use them like. Well, like I don't think I would ever say like, oh yeah, I can use audition if I just was using it on my own at home. But you know, after like running an interview with you guys and being like, oh yeah, this is how you do this are like, figuring out new stuff with grace. Like when we're at like trying editing the homecoming episode stuff. Like, I feel like I'm competent. Now. Like, I feel like I know it.

Delisa: I really liked how we got to like, we had like ideas that we learned from other podcasts that we listened to on Spotify, and were able to like, oh, this will be so cool. Like, how can we add this into like our next episodes like using video or like the Hoco Titans things like you said, or like book bands was like completely new with like, using music throughout the entire episode. And I really liked like, how the more podcasts we put out, like the better they got pretty much.

Orelia: For me when I came in, I didn't know anything. So as I knew, every time I came into class, I was always worried that we're gonna do something today, and I don't know how to do it, and it's just gonna be so bad for them. I think by now by the end of it. Almost anything like the graphic, the editing interview, like how to set up a script, how to reach out to people in a way that it's not like you're not pushing them to do the interview with you like you're actually asking them,they all those things, I just, I've just learned a ton. And it's crazy to think about it because it's just been one whole year. And by the end for I feel like I'm more ready and prepared for the next year. So I'm happy about that.

Jordan: I have to say, my, this is weird, but my favorite thing that I've learned was on Adobe Audition, how to make like the waveform thing until multitrack would have learned how to do that. I was like, wow, this is for real. But like, I had no clue with any like how to edit anything. But I want to do because my little sister was like, Oh, I want to become an editor when I'm older. And I was like what type of editor, she was like editing like audio stuff because she watches this YouTuber that does it. And I was like, this sounds pretty fun. So when I like came to this class, when I was really excited to like learn how to do all this stuff, especially the multitrack my favorite thing.

Rachel: I would definitely say that um, I've definitely learned skills that have helped me outside of this class. I had never touched like audition or anything other than like InDesign and possibly illustrator from Messenger. So you being able to use audition, I figured out how to record something and like I worked with drew on how to remove like, some noise stuff for our Carrie curtain speech.

Dhruv: I pulled up google for that one.

Rachel: Okay. Um, so these skills that we've like, learned will definitely, like, they're not just things that we can use in this class, there's like applications outside.

Delisa: So now that we're ending the year, how do you guys think you've improved from the very beginning to now?

Sofia: Um, personally, for me, I think the main way that I improved, like the way that I'm most proud of is definitely on graphics. I remember at the beginning of the year, Grace, like helped us with our first graphic. And then from there on, I would really like I always went to her and I was like, Grace, please help me with this. And I'm like, I would like to, like follow her format. And then the most recent graphic that I made with the like international night, that was like, mainly from my own like, ideas in my brain. And I was so proud of how it came out, because it was like exactly how it looks in my head. And it wasn't really following a certain format, it just follow like, what the episode kind of like aura was, and I was so proud of that, I was able to learn how to like, I was showing everyone to class, I learned how to make shades on the curtain, nobody cared. But um, yeah, definitely just learning how to use Illustrator more and kind of use my own creative. Like way with that, and then also definitely audition. Same with international episode after I learned how to like, incorporate stuff because I feel like podcast is a lot more immersive and storytelling with the sounds able to do and stuff like that. And when I found out how to incorporate that without making it sound like awkward or weird, I was so proud of it.

Grace: To clear things up of it. The grace that Sophia is talking about is Grace Peng our EIC for messenger. So I was not a graphic Master, but yeah, I can really see how Sofia improved, like, her international night graphic was actually so amazing. And like, I feel like the whole thing was like having more creative freedom and like, not just following like a sort of like framework. I think we I think as like a whole group, we grew out of like just following a framework and like, started like doing our own sort of like how we want to do our graphics, like how we want to do your episodes, and not just doing like a like the exact same thing we always did like for me one way I feel like I improved is I think sort of like Delisa touched on it with like our book bans episode how like, we started sort of working into incorporating like different sounds and like cutting in more clips instead of just having like, blocks of just audio.

Delisa: Yeah, because the book bans no one, previously before that, we would just like have a complete like interview. But for the book bans ones is the first time that we had like different interviews that we had to incorporate into one episode. And so that was like a lot of editing a lot of like sounds that we had to include. And so that was like probably my biggest accomplishment or like the thing I'm the most proud of. And also, I was in both messenger and podcast this year for the first time. And I really learned how to like talk to people and like, introduce myself and like, especially when it comes to interviewing people. And I really like how I like learn to work together with other people, and just like, know how to do small talk.

Caleb: I think the thing I'm most improved on was my boldness. It's weird, me being the editor of this class, and I still get like stage fright and you know, being scared to talk in front of people because I'm scared of like the comments I might get back, and that sort of thing. But I think as we went on through this year, interviewing people doing more episodes, I gained more experience, and kind of got more comfortable with the mic, and that sort of thing. But also kind of being trying to grow as a leader, as my first time ever being like in a leadership position. Really, so growing like with the class, but then also kind of keeping us on track kind of, you know, just being a better leader, I think that's the main thing I've moved on.

Orelia: I feel as a class as well, like just the kind of content or the kind of episodes we used to make initially was what we make now I feel like they're just more serious and they have more of a reason behind it in some way or the other. Like the first few episodes like they just had so much room for editing and the way we frame the whole thing. And then the reason why it's like the homecoming one or the book bands, all those just was they just seem so much more detail oriented and professional in some way or the other.

Dhruv: I think that it just in general like the way we record episodes to like even the like less flashy ones. Like the first ever episode we did was the Downey interview, like Caleb, Suhani and I went that we were sent out and like originally wanted Mrs. Evans to come with us to we were it wasn't possible we were like really nervous. I remember that. We like walked to his office we go in and like it took us like 10 minutes to setup. I was like and then like Suhani would have like a whiteboard and she like flashed at Caleb when he needed him to say something and it didn't help like either because like in the episode you could tell Caleb would look like anyway. And like all sorts of things and like it took us like 40 minutes and I was okay like you know, Caleb's great at talking and so it's Downey and stuff, but then we did it again. Just Caleb and I We did the same thing we walked down the same hallway like when no one else it's like we were in like we were set up like instantly we got like more info in like half the time it was just so much better it was like all the bad habits that we had are like going away and like just our process is so much more robust and so like really interesting thing but I'm really glad we did like the same episode twice.

Caleb: Yeah, I agree. Dt: What are some of your favorite memories and then biggest accomplishments in this class? Som: I think I could say this for mostly everyone this class but my favorite memory was definitely Mrs. Evans birthday because I remember we made this like Slack channel and then it was like we all like it was so nice being able to talk everyone in like a non academic setting because these are the only use Slack that like you know, like podcasts kind of related stuff. But for this we were all talking about like what's her favorite color guys what gets you to get her something like links everyone told me the stuffed animal I thought was really ugly but everyone was being so mean but then like I went out to go get the cake and then everyone's favorite color purple, I’m pretty sure it’s purple. And then um after that when we actually came in and we had that huge card we were like running around to get signatures from teachers and then we're like trying to fill it up and then like to Delisa showed me the messenger was like that was so full compared to ours signatures from teachers and stuff like that. And then when the actual day came we were like talking about like ways that we could surprise her I was like I shouldn't pretend like someone slapped me and then scream Dhruv’s name.

Caleb: No we were gonna put it on Jonah that he like passed out.

Dhruv: Sofia said that and I wasn’t gonna get top so I said like, what if we pretend Jonah died.

Sofia: A freshman. Yeah, and then like, during the actual in the actual celebration, I just felt like so much like we were a family which I do feel like we are a family um, after all this time. And then messenger had like a whole like party with like.

Rachel: People in a budget, we gotta love it.

Sofia: It was really nice. And I loved how Mrs. Evans treasured it and it was a heartwarming moment for all of us.

Suhani: Told to go to the back room.

Caleb: You guys kept whispering and I was like what are y’all doing.

Sofia: No one told me that we were going to forget that, we weren’t going to forget that it was her birthday. So I didn’t wish her happy birthday because I was like, so we’re all forgetting that it’s her birthday right.

Delisa: Yeah, I literally remember planning like us all standing up at the exact same time going to the back of the back, like robots and her being like completely weird out like what.

Suhani: We said, let’s start our work and she’s never seen us so motivated.

Rachel: Um, I would say my favorite memory goes along with the birthday party. But I, Mrs. Evans texted me one day and was like, can you make a graphic with like, episode seven point twenty-two. And I was like okay, with no possible idea in my head, what seven point twenty-two could mean. I was like okay. Later come to find out, It's a picture of her ultrasound. She that I made. And I was like, oh, and then, um, the next thing goes along with it. But it was. It was witnessed. It was I think was at a birthday party. And I think Mrs Evans had just found out the gender of her baby. And she's like, do you guys want to know and we all placed bets. And then we found out and then we just got so hyped.

Delisa: I like how like every girl voted girl and then it was a girl and we all liked cheered and it was very wholesome.

Caleb: Yeah, I’m still mad.

Grace: I think that shows like one of my favorite aspects of this class that like, we're all really close to each other and also really close to Mrs. Evans. I remember that one time when Dhruv got a speeding ticket and he he was so stressed and he kept talking to Mrs. Evans about it and she like calmed him down and she was like-

Dhruv: She actually calmed me down so much. I was like, well, Mrs. Evans I'm really stressed about this, but like, you know, it's fine. Like I felt better after talking to her. She didn't say much.

Delisa: I remember your court date too.

Grace: As for like a competition, and I remember we submitted a few episodes for like what was it? GSPA, Georgia Scholar Press Association. Yes. And we did win an award for that. And I'm also, personally, I'm proud of like, being able to have a vision and like, carry it out. Because I remember the first time I was assigned to, like, I had the idea, or somebody had the idea for like, Homecoming Titans that we cover that. And like, I was like, I really want to be in that group. Because I really want to record that moment where he announces the titans, and there's like, a bunch of cheering. And like, I was able to, like execute my vision in that episode. And it made me like, really, really proud and really, really happy, or ever.

Dhruv: I remember it was so cool. Like, Grace asked me to, like, come to the back for a second. And I like went back there. And she started doing it. And then she like, I just kind of sat back and she did the whole thing on her own. And it sounds like so good. And I was like, I'm telling you, like, you guys do not need my help.

Delisa: Yeah, to wrap it all up isn't specifically a favorite memory for me. But I feel like because book bans are split into like two groups, and like most of us are like on either one group or the other. I feel like after that, we all somehow managed to like, even if we were in different groups, we would all like help each other out. And I feel like it made us like so much closer. So that was like one of my favorite aspects of this class. But what are your guys's like favorite things that you hope for next year, or like what you're looking forward to?

Orelia: I personally am kind of excited to meet all the new people who are going to be joining the class, and seeing how, like from whatever we learn this year, how it's just going to help what we do next year and change everything that we do next year. So that's one thing and just kind of being able to spend another year with all of you.

Sofia: Yeah, I agree. Because like, it's gonna be definitely more structured and different from this year, because we know so much more now. And it's going to be not as like, not easy to teach the other staffers but it'll be like better for us because I feel like we'll have more of a foundation and it'll just be more exciting to like, actually execute the stuff that you want to do. Because you had that idea. You didn't know if you could execute it, but you did. And now we know that we can execute like anything you want to. But yeah.

Delisa: i’m excited for Caleb’s grad party.

Caleb: Invitation to see if it comes to your inbox. But even though me, Dhruv and Suhani will be gone next year. My biggest hope is that you guys continue to make really good content for Northview to hear. I'll still be tuning in, but I'm just like, take whatever we've learned this year into them and keep growing. And I think I'm really proud of you guys. Oh Mrs.Evans don’t do it.

Dhruv: I think even if like I won't even lie, I don't think I listened to a single episode after they came out. Listen, like I would like help editing each one. I'd heard each one like I always heard it was like, yeah, the release, like I just like worry about the next thing. But even if like I'm not gonna be here, and I didn't listen to one, I just want you guys to like keep growing on you guys. Like keep trying new things and stuff I want to like, tune in and be like, Dude, I don't know how we never even thought of that. Like, I want to be impressed. I want to like and I'm gonna I'm gonna keep tuning in. I want to see where you guys do next.

Grace: A lot of pressure making me in this we have a Google document to sort of write down all our ideas. And my main idea was to fill the gaping hole left in Dhruv Singh’s place. Dhruv honestly did like a lot of stuff. So I'm hoping that we can like yeah, because you're leaving the morning will be mean after we finish recording. Yeah, I think that next year, I really am excited to like teach new people other things and hear their ideas as well. And I also want to like fix some stuff with like our mics and like sort of standardize everything because I know this year, you're a bit disorganized, because like renew class.

Sofia: And I hope I just hope that I can carry on Caleb's confidence and Suhani’s kindness just got like a whole spotlight.

Grace: Caleb is trying so hard right now.

Orelia: Actually.

Delisa: Is he actually.

Caleb: No.

Delisa: So to all the people who are planning on joining podcasts next year, or who hoped to join podcasts in the future, what would you guys say to them?

Sofia: I would say

Rachel: Do it.

Caleb: Just do it.

Sofia: Don't be afraid of anything that you think might if it's different from what you usually do, if you don't know if you'd like, if you don't know you'll be good at it, because you never know, obviously, I didn't know what was coming from me when I came into this class. But I love this community so much. I love the atmosphere. I love creating episodes. And it's turned into what my biggest passion, so that could be you too.

Delisa: Yeah, I remember my freshman year, I only wanted to be in classes if my friends were in it. Or if I knew the people there, just so I was because I was too afraid, obviously, to join things that were out of my comfort zone. Not only classes, but also clubs. And for all like the incoming freshmen and sophomores, whatever grade you're in, don't be afraid to join. Even if it seems like we're all close. Like, it didn't really start that way. And I feel like if you go out of your comfort zone, you take that leap to join something that you find interesting could be a much better experience than you would have ever imagined.

Rachel: You, you may not think that you're interested in something, but just joining a class and realizing that, oh, wow, I really enjoyed this, and I want to do it in the future is a really big step. And don't be afraid to come join us we have a lot of fun. It may seem like it's a lot of work putting out a podcast, but you have fun doing so.

Caleb: Although like I want us to I want you guys to create really good content. But I would say don't get too caught up in the work that you forget to have the fun that we have in this class, like the just the bonds that we make. And like the just all the laughs that we had, I think those are a lot more meaningful. And although we can just even implement those into our podcasts and like the bond between us in the connection that we have is from those experiences in the fun that we've had.

Suhani: Speaking of bonds, I would just like to give a shout out to someone who isn't here. New members when you come into the class and for the first time that lump in the back of the classroom is Marcus.

Dhruv: Keep an eye out for Jonah.

Grace: Yeah, just try it because I think that one thing that brings a lot of people together is like, like listening to stuff, whether it's like music, or like the radio or something. And also, I would say don't be afraid if that people will like already be in their friend groups or anything like at the beginning of the year. We like barely even knew each other. But like, this class really brings you closer to other people.

Orelia: Also, one thing that I noticed and I would advise is that if someone tells you that something about your work can be changed in a certain way. Like don't be afraid of criticism. And like don't be afraid if someone tells you to change something, don't feel offended by like just actually try to implement it and see why they told you to do that rather than being scared about it.

Mrs. Evans: So this concludes our episode. Thank you so much for listening. For a transcript of this episode, head to the point of view tab on our website, nhsmessenger.org And follow us on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @nhspointofview for updates. I'm your host Mrs. Evans and this has been Point of View.

Across The Table - Music Taste, do our personalities affect what we listen to?

Rachel Everett, Marcus Kim, Dhruv Singh, Suhani Mahajan

Staffers Dhruv, Marcus, Rachel, and Suhani examine a study linking personality to music taste, discussing the validity of the study and their own experiences with music. Listen on Spotify or Apple Music.

Marcus Kim: HeIlo, and welcome to Point of View where we give students a place to listen, learn, and lean in. I'm Marcus,

Dhruv Singh: I’m Dhruv,

Suhani Mahajan: I'm Suhani,

Rachel Everett: and I’m Rachel.

Marcus Kim: And today we'll be discussing the psychological similarities between our emotions, personality and the music that we like. So there is a study by Heriot-Watt University that tries and draws a connection or correlation between our personalities and the type of music we like to listen to. So for example, if you really like pop, rap, country, or dance music, you could be described as like conventional, extroverted or even hard working. On the other side of the spectrum, if you prefer to listen to indie, rock, jazz, or classical, you could be described as creative or introverted. I personally really like pop music. I like the more chill side of pop music. And sometimes when I'm at the gym, or playing like Valent, I like hard rock music. I'm kind of extroverted, so I could definitely see how pop being extroverted makes sense.

Rachel Everett: Do you think that you fit in with that box of pop music, with the whole hard working and high self-esteem?

Marcus Kim: I'm definitely not hard working, but I would consider myself pretty extroverted. I do like some indie songs, and sometimes when I am feeling a little bit introverted. There are flaws in the study, obviously, but I can kind of see how there is some sort of connection.

Dhruv Singh: I feel like, for me, personally, I listen to all kinds of music. I listen to at least a little bit of each one of these genres. But when I'm looking at it, I kind of feel like, it's like a false correlation, or it could be construed as that. Because when you look at the distinctive characteristics when they're mentioning the genres, they kind of just reflect the culture and the perception of that genre at the time. I'm sure if this study was done in the 80s, or 70s, when rock was the predominant form of music and like the pop genre and stuff, that would be listed as like the outgoing, hardworking one, right? But now, culturally, we've shifted over to like, electronic and like hip hop and stuff be more on the pop music. Now that's gonna be more like the extroverted, outgoing, self esteem heavy genre, or at least the personalities that people say that genre has.

Marcus Kim: Going off of that, when you think of heavy rock, and metal and stuff, when you think about it, you would think about someone at a concert like banging their head in a mosh pit or something. It says that people who like heavy rock and metal tend to be introverted and might have low self-esteem. So, I can see how there is an idea, like a heuristic idea of what someone might be if they listened to heavy rock or metal, but actually it might be the opposite.

Dhruv Singh: I feel like the music comes first not the opposite. Like I tie these caricatures and ideas of these people to the music because I know people who listen to music who are like that, you know what I mean? This study kinda like insinuates the idea that if you fill these like personality boxes, then you will end up like this afterwards maybe if you listen to more of this music, which I feel is kind of flawed, because I feel like that's not the right way to read it or at least that isn't like an accurate way to read it.

Suhani Mahajan: I feel like that's a way to generalize, you're right. But also, just based on your mood and whatnot, if you reach for different music, I think your feelings in that moment when you reach for a different genre of music might actually be similar to these descriptions. So also, the whole people who listen to rock being creative, but also like often introverted, I think that's plausible enough. I don't know how the study was conducted, but I don't know if it's right for us to suggest that the study is incorrect either. It's very possible if we look at a bunch of people and their music tastes there might be a correlation.

Dhruv Singh: So, I guess you're right. There definitely will always be a correlation between someone who listens to music and the music you listen to since music has moods and emotion in it. So obviously, like you're gonna share that mood or like that kind of personality. I don't know if any of you guys like listen to a genre that you particularly connect with.

Rachel Everett: I feel like I do at least a little bit country music. I always get hated on for liking country music. I don't know why it's good music. I listen to more country pop. The study says country music fans are typically hardworking, conventional and outgoing. I like to think that I'm hardworking. I also like to think I'm outgoing. I definitely get stuff done, and I'm always out and about with people. I kind of disagree with the conventional like, I think maybe you have that like stigma of like, oh, country music is for, like, conservatives, or like Republicans or something. And it says, conventional, I don't like to think that I'm, like, maybe traditional. I like to think I'm open minded, in a sense.

Dhruv Singh: Well, that brings up another criticism I have of the study, just to dunk on it a little bit more. Because some of that definitely, because you gotta consider that genre comes from a very specific culture at the time, that's where you get the new name. Funk was a thing and then it diversifies a bit more, then you end up with stuff like hip hop and based off of that, it ceding off. So country stems from the rock and pop of the 60s and 70s, right. But then as it becomes more rural, and it becomes like foci, and then it splits off more. And then you end up with the genre of country coming from other roots. So they took what they liked about folk, which is the storytelling nature of it, and the values and stuff, and then they like, split it off even more. And they made it like, okay, now we're going to talk about this specific value that like country music has, which is the stereotype. In my head, it's like the stereotype of like, a cold beer. It's something like that. That's not the case, obviously. But like, that's what I've been like. So obviously, when you look at how music genres split off, there's always gonna be that connection that you could find. This study is just bringing it to focus.

Rachel Everett: So, you're saying that even though the study categorizes these things differently, there's always going to be a connection within them.

Dhruv Singh: I'm saying that naturally with media and music at all, you can always tie it back to where the genre comes from, and you can just say that like 'Okay, if you listen to this, you probably follow those roots a little bit.'

Suhani Mahajan: I think it's also based on like, what you're talking about roots and everything, how you are introduced, or how you experience the music, like, how did you get introduced the country? If you don't mind me asking?

Rachel Everett: I don't remember, I think it was always on the radio. We only listen to one radio station. It was always on in the car; we would always change the radio stations if it wasn't. So, it's always been like that kind of comfort place for me. So that's how I got introduced.

Suhani Mahajan: Actually, yeah, I have to say, if I think about the radio, like early childhood, like 2000s pop is what we listen to. And pop music, according to this study, talks about how I'm supposed to be hardworking, and have high self-esteem. And I think, I mean, I’d like to think that's true. But I also associate pop music with family and that warmth because those are the memories I have associated with that genre of music. So, I think the whole roots thing that Dhruv was talking about, I mean, it's not exactly what he was talking about, but-

Dhruv Singh: I think that the fun thing about music and art is that everyone has their own way of finding it. So, like Rachel grows up with the station, right? And then you end up liking that music more as you get older, and like you were kind of getting something like that too Suhani. You said you like K-pop right? You kind of found that. So, at one point it's not like you were with that as you grew up in some of that. For me, I had this thing where I really hated music up until late middle school. I was kind of that loser who only listened to video game soundtracks. If anything with lyrics played, I'd get really annoying about it. I'd be like, no, I don't want to hear it.

Suhani Mahajan: I'm also the type of kid who just didn't want to wear words, like shirts with words on them.

Dhruv Singh: I did not have an opinion about that.

Marcus Kim: I definitely see myself in that. In late middle school, I would always be that one kid where they would be like, 'What music do you listen to?' and I would be like, 'I actually don't listen to a lot.' I really didn't enjoy music because I didn't really have a reason to listen to music. I didn't feel like buying Spotify and I didn't really like ads and I hadn't really found an artist that I liked. So, I definitely really didn't listen to much music. I kind of generalized all music as the same, which actually going back to what you were saying Dhruv, let's say for example, even within rock, right? If you look at Elvis Presley, both of them are technically wrong, but the emotions that they show and the emotions that are in it, and the reasons you would listen to it, or the type of people that would listen to it, there might be some overlap, but generally they're on opposite sides of the spectrum of raw, right? You were saying how music genres branch off, even within these genres, people will still go to different artists for different things. So that could also be a flaw within the study because it doesn't really account like what is a genre.

Dhruv Singh: I think that genre as a concept is kind of flawed too. So when you take these big, sweeping things and say anyone who listens to this genre is like this, you're inherently gonna miss a like a lot by simplifying it like that, because it's nuanced.

Suhani Mahajan: Are you talking about the way that you're describing how genres are created, and there's so many branches of them, so you can't really generalize?

Dhruv Singh: I think that genre is a really helpful way to group things, right? But when you're grouping anything like that, anything that's kind of nuanced, you're missing a lot, right? So genre. I don't know how it actually forms. But when it happens, it misses a lot, like so. For instance, it's also tied to the cultural norms of the time. So genre mainly has been in the past been dictated by white people if that makes sense. You can trace back anything. Black music wasn't given like a serious genre, it was more just considered in that group. So jazz and stuff like that would have been electric guitar elements and stuff. But then when it becomes more popular in the mainstream, like white group started using electric guitar, it becomes like, rock and roll, if that makes sense. You could trace that line through history. So in general you're going to be missing a lot whenever you refer to genre as like a de facto identifier if that makes sense.

Marcus Kim: So I think going past the idea of genre a little bit like what you get out of the music, right? So for example, um, I think it wouldn't be very controversial to say that indie or like chill music is more of an invoker of emotion, where listening to something like classic or jazz is more complex music, right?

Suhani Mahajan: You can still experience emotions with any kind of music.

Marcus Kim: Of course, but no, again, Heriot Watt also did a study that know those more structurally complex musical genres like classical jazz and world music, people who like that typically go into like, you know, stem or like mathematical, very like binary, like binary career paths. On the opposite side of the spectrum, people who tend to like more music that invokes more emotion typically go into like more like creative or humanitarian paths. So I can actually definitely see that. I upvote that. I upvote that. I resonate with that a lot.

Dhruv Singh: So you're saying that, if you tend to gravitate towards a certain type of music, you can kind of see that you might be interested in other things as well. If you like, complex musical, you'll like complex fields, and like medical fields.

Suhani Mahajan: How your brain interprets music is just like a clue to how your brain interprets other things, or what it prefers.

Dhruv Singh: I can kind of see that, I think, but then I think it also just comes down to the fact that people will always consume music and media differently. I know that I personally don't gravitate to one kind of thing. I don't really like just classical music. We could tie that back to the fact that everyone kind of enjoys music for different reasons.

Suhani Mahajan: So then let's talk about that. Marcus, let's start with you. What draws you to the music you listen to? Why do you listen to it?

Marcus Kim: So typically, okay, so let's just go down the list. So when I'm listening to like pop music or just for fun, like you know, when I'm just like, chilling, that's probably for I don't know, like just to entertain myself right? Over when I'm like, working out or like playing Fowler and I'm listening to like heavy metal or like that, that'd be more for like, I don't know, more of like a, like a strong sensation of sorts. And this actually ties to a theory of like, why we listen to music. So there is a theory, seven main reasons why we listen to music for entertainment, a sense of revival, to feel a strong sensation for mental work to find a sense of solace, diversion or a release of emotion. And thinking about my playlist, right? And depending on my mood, or why I'm listening to music, the songs I'll choose change, so I could definitely see that.

Dhruv Singh I can definitely see that. I'm kind of curious. What does mental work mean?

Marcus Kim: So how, when I looked into mental work is you're listening to music, just for the sake of listening to music you're not having in the background, you are 100% focused on the music, like you sit downs, like you go to an orchestra, or you go to an opera and you're focusing strictly on the music itself. I think that could be considering working.

Suhani Mahajan: As a K-pop fan, I'm gonna say, I mean, what you described was going to a concert or something to experience the music and as someone who's gone to K-pop concerts, yes, I'm going to experience the music, but I think that's also a different environment. Just because the experience is different. So.

Dhruv Singh: I think that hits like a dip that hits like a different thing with like strong sensation and entertainment. Right? I think he's referring more to like a concert hall for like orchestral pieces. Like when you go to see like an orchestra performance. You're not clapping and like singing. You're like, yes, that is a very interesting key. Like, different. But yeah, I kind of like I this part of the study, I kind of agree with more, I feel like there's still probably like, I couldn't think of anything off the top my head, but they're probably still missing some reasons why people like MIT might listen to music. But I feel like this is a lot less general in that, like, I think that everyone can at least relate to some of these reasons.

Marcus Kim: I know we're talking about like, why he was in music. I just kind of think about this, but it has like no one thought of like location. And like how that might affect how you listen to music. Because I know I drive. So my car playlists are like 10 times different from like, my, like, quote, unquote, school playlists, like the place I played school. Like my car music. My car music is basically like, pretty busy. Because I just it's like the base just feels my car. So all of a sudden the like, like old school rock, like so many armies are really good, like black. But like when I'm at school I kind of listened to were like, not necessarily mellow, but more just low, calmer, more upbeat.

Dhruv Singh: Sometimes I used to wish that like, I had a superpower where I could just hear it was in people's headphones. It was like, everyone listens to such different stuff.

Rachel Everett: You got to be the guy on Tik Tok.

Dhruv Singh: That kind of thing is really interesting to watch, because everyone just uses music because as a different way when they're just walking around school or driving. I like something with a little rhythm when I'm like walking around during school just because I'm walking, I'm going places.

Rachel Everett: Do you ever try and walk to the beat?

Dhruv Singh: Oh, well, I don't try.

Suhani Mahajan: He's gonna start skipping.

Dhruv Singh: But I think it probably happens anyway. But like, when I'm driving, listen, like more stuff that just helps me focus, because driving is a passive activity and that like I'm thinking, but I'm thinking like as actively. So like, I wasn't like we were lyrical stuff and stuff like that. Like, it just depends on the person.

Suhani Mahajan: It’s really interesting. If you drive with Dhruv he will sing the lyrics as what he's saying.

Dhruv Singh: Maybe.

Marcus Kim: I mean, but then there is a reason why we listen to music. And then, but there was also like, I don't know, some agreement disagreement with, you know, if it's predetermined. So then I guess the general overarching question is, is music taste and your enjoyment in music, something as esoteric is that, are you able to put a study behind it?

Dhruv Singh: I don't think so. I don't think it's ever going to be that accurate. But that's how I feel about this.

Suhani Mahajan: Yeah, I don't think if we don't even understand our emotions and feelings, like, the way the brain kind of comes up with these, I don't think we can understand the correlation between feelings and preferences and music.

Marcus Kim: I mean, I guess to take a counterargument. You know, neurons either fire or not, right. And that's how our brain is made up. So if our brains and emotions are technically all stemming from like, yes or no, one or zero responses, could eventually if we map out our brains and the technology is good enough, could we then create like a perfect playlist for someone?

Dhruv Singh: That's a really interesting concept. I wonder if that's actually that's the future.

Marcus Kim: I mean like in this future.

Dhruv Singh: If this study is correct then yeah, I guess so.

Suhani Mahajan: Says Dhruv after bashing this study.

Dhruv Singh: I don't think. I don't know if he can, but like, yeah, that's what this study kind of asserts.

Marcus Kim: Does anyone? Okay, so does anyone know their 16 personalities type their like, four letter personality type? Yes? So I found on Spotify playlists, for I know, it's so cheesy, there's gonna be like, these, you know, I, it's really interesting, because seeing the diff like, I thought I was one four letter combination. But instead, I'm actually another. And so I overloaded like, my first one. And then I was like, Oh, I'm at this other one. So listening to the different music that the Creator put into the playlist was actually really interesting. Because it turns out I like both. So like, it's not necessarily that your personality type is going to determine what you like, but it's, it seems more fine-tuned to you in a way.

Suhani Mahajan: Did you like when you found out that you were actually a different, like, personality type? Did you find like that the other playlists suited you more?

Marcus Kim: Let me check. So I just found, so I'm an ISFP. And looking at the songs, I definitely feel like I vibe with it a lot more than the original one I had. They're all kind of very light airy music in. I don't think that's a good way to describe it. But they're all good ones with a good beat. Not necessarily too heavy. When, with the other one, the INFP that I thought I was, is kind of more like deep, more like, not necessarily darker, but like deeper songs. Maybe if you can consider them heavy. So seeing how the music swats changed depending on the personality type. I definitely think I resonate with my current one more, which is kind of interesting, because it didn't think I would be any different.

Marcus Kim: Regardless, music kind of resonates with us. I mean, whether it's based off of your emotion, or just how you're raised or the culture growing up in. Music is just kind of always prevalent. I think, with how popular music streaming apps like Spotify are, I think music will just continue to be a part of our lives and the upcoming generations because music is just more accessible, right? And no, we're still trying to figure a lot about our brains and trying to decide what we like. And I just think on the closing note, music will just always be here. And I think maybe we should just chill and enjoy it rather than try and find out why we like it.

Rachel Everett: And check out the Spotify playlist that's linked in the description. We've added some music from all of our different tastes, so yeah.

Marcus Kim: Thank you so much for listening. For a transcript of this episode, head to the Point of View tab on our website nhsmessenger.org and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook at @nhspointofview for updates and new episodes. I'm your host Marcus,

Dhruv Singh: I'm Dhruv,

Suhani Mahajan: Suhani,

Rachel Everett: and Rachel, and this has been Point of View.

Book Bans - Into Darkness

Jordan Anderson, Jonah Chadwin, Rachel Everett, Caleb Smith, Orelia Thottam, Delisa Troupe

In the second episode of our two-part series, host Caleb Smith explores how book bans affect students and the authors who hoped to spread representation, connection, and understanding with the characters and experiences in their books. Listen on Spotify or Apple Music.

Ashley Perez: Out of Darkness was published in 2015. It received a Prince honor it won the Tomasi better Book Award. It won the America's Book Award. It was a School Library Journal and a Kirkus review Best Book of the Year. It was named by Booklist, one of 50 best YA books of all time, like, you know what I mean? It's been around, and so I think it was like, a bit startling because I think when I first wrote this book, I wondered, how will it be received? You know, will people be ready for it? And initially for the first six years, it was well received, you know, overwhelmingly in positive ways and only in 2021 did it start being banned.

Caleb Smith: Hello and welcome to point of view, where we give students a place to listen, learn and lean in. I'm your host, Caleb Smith, and today we are back with part two of our series on book bans, where we will dive into the implications behind the recent surge of book bands in America. Specifically, how it affects our youth and the authors who are working to help our students learn and grow through their books. Please note that this episode references sensitive topics, including sexual violence and racism, and may not be suitable for some listeners. This is author Ashley Hope Perez.

Ashley Perez: Out of Darkness is set in 1936. And it's a love story. It's about a Latina named Naomi who moves to this community in East Texas, from San Antonio with her two half siblings, so she has younger siblings, and she falls in love with a boy named Wash or Washington. One who’s black.

Caleb Smith: Wash walked the girl out of the yard and down the road away from the house. She could hear their laughter and wondered if he was telling this girl the same jokes he told her down by the river. Once they were gone, Naomi tore down the path into the woods trying to outrun the sob that was Connor’s throat. without remembering the steps in between, or the light in the woods, or the sound of the river. Naomi found herself in the back steps of Henry's house.

Ashley Perez: And this is a sort of the kind of relationship that has no place in this time and in this community.

Caleb Smith: Wash tried keeping his voice calm. But he felt his fear creeping in the stories he'd heard from his father's growing up days in the country. All the ways a black man could die.

Ashley Perez: And so they really kind of create a little family out in the woods, and it's a space of joy and possibility for her and for her siblings. But there are a lot of things set against them.

Caleb: Naomi didn't need to be told she felt safest in the room with the sleeping twins. She did not want to see her mother's empty face, her strange, swollen body drained of color. She did not want to be out in the part of the house where Henry walks.

Ashley Perez: Naomi has an abusive stepfather. And then the book leads up to a real event. The New London School explosion which killed 300 students and teachers, and that event triggers like a downward spiral for these characters.

Caleb Smith: On March 18 1937. A gas leak led to an explosion that destroyed the London School in East Texas. The school had cost a million dollars to build. It was located in one of the wealthiest school districts in the country. And yet a leak had allowed natural gas to accumulate in the basement, killing almost 300 students and teachers. This tragedy known as The New London School explosion is the deadliest school disaster in American history to this day. The content of Perez’s books mirror reality in modern day and in historical texts. The novel tackles racism, classism, and segregation during the 1930s. At the center there's a love story between Naomi and Wash. He reveals the challenges they face from sexual assault to overt racism and fear, real things that real people face. In fact, she writes most of her books with her previous students in mind. She writes about their experiences and their struggles in the same setting where she used to teach.

Ashley Perez: I was a teacher in Houston starting in 2004. And this book What Can't Wait is my first novel which is set in our school. It's about you know, it's about places that all my students recognize. And it was really focused on my students experiences, specifically, their feelings about how complicated it was to figure out how to help their families meet the needs that were coming up every single day, while also finding a way to navigate towards their own future. So college or work or whatever, out of darkness is the historical novel I wrote, for my students, the one I felt what will make them want to keep turning the page, what would make this matter to them. And it matters both because you start, you really come to care about the characters, but also because it shows aspects of our history, like a lot of people know about school segregation, as it affected black Americans. So having, you know, quote, unquote, colored schools, but a lot of people don't know that in places like Texas, there were three ways of segregating students, there was the well, the better funded white school, there was the quote, unquote, colored school. And then there was the Mexican School, which was not for people who were actually from Mexico, but for Latinos, or anybody brown, but not black, not white. And in places like San Antonio, by the time kids were in sixth grade, they were basically pushed out of school. So they were, they had, you know, huge classes, and they didn't have the resources that they needed to learn. And the whole goal was, basically to get kids to drop out. There weren't Mexican high schools there. So you have to be wide enough to go to the white school, or find another way, if you're going to continue in education in many cases.

Caleb Smith: Parent associations or school boards advocate for banning books, they take away real experiences that students may have faced, or will face, they take away literature that is meant to educate in a safe space for open conversation. They take away students’ rights to learn about the different circumstances that people live through, and these students deserve to read literature that they can relate to.

Ashley Perez: To think about all the times that I walked into our high school library with my classes and worked with them to find books, and how excited my students back in 2004 would have been to find these books. It really makes me…, what do I say? I'm not very good at being angry. I don't do anger. It makes me really sad. It does, but it also makes me feel indignant, because we've worked so hard to bring more representation, a wider range of experiences, more of the untold stories into high school libraries, and these actions are all about pushing back on that progress. I know as a teacher, and as a parent that students are the ones that are harmed.

Caleb Smith: Out of darkness a novel by Ashley hope Perez, a Latina author. Was one of the novels targeted or removed in Georgia, Utah, Virginia, Ohio, Indiana and Texas. It had challenges in Missouri, Oklahoma, and Kansas as well. The book was first banned in Texas schools when Kara Bell interrupted a school board meeting to voice her opinion on the now controversial book. She read a passage from the book pertaining to sexual content and explained how it was unsuitable for kids to be reading. She finished her argument by stating that the school board should focus on education and not public health.

Ashley Perez: And the passage that gets read over and over from my book, as proof that it shouldn't be in schools is about a Latina, arriving to an all-white school on her first day. And it's what the characters that the kids in the class are thinking about her. I'm not endorsing that perspective; I'm showing that it happened that young people had to endure those circumstances and somehow find a way to maintain their dignity at the same time.

Caleb Smith: Miss Perez is not the only one who has fought back against the book bans in the most diverse high school in the state of Missouri, North Kansas City. 10 students condemned their districts and the Northland parent associations attempts to ban books, many of these associations author Perez is familiar with.

Ashley Perez: So there's a bunch of right wing groups like No Left Turn in Education, Moms for liberty, there are some that are specific to Texas, and then there are tons of these some of them private Facebook groups and online groups were basically you know, spreadsheets where folks who are looking to signal I'd say their objections to certain identities, queer identities, non-white identities. They target the books as a way of sending a signal historically, book banning has been focused in banning in schools has often focused on you know, one or two texts, and they were very local challenges like a parent finds a book in their kids backpack and is shocked because books like that weren't in school when they were kids or whatever. You know, this is how like… There were times when authors like Judy Blume were being banned for talking about having your period. So, you know, there's been fights over what kids should read for a long time, but these are really different because it's actually not about the books.

Caleb Smith: The Northland parent association is a nonprofit organization whose goal is to, quote, make a positive impact by protecting our children's educational experiences and fighting for American freedom in the classroom. For the students at North Kansas City High School, this meant banning books from their school, including All Boys aren't Blue, a coming of age novel by George M. Johnson's life growing up queer and black, as well as Fun Home a graphic novel about the author, Alison Bechdel’s childhood and complex relationship with their father.

Aurora Nicol: The NPA which is the Northland parent association, they came to speak at my school district's board meeting and they read some and the president of it Jay Richmond read excerpts from four different books. Well, he read excerpt from three, but then when it came to the fourth book, he just said he was refusing to read an excerpt from it because it was from a gay black man. And apparently that means he didn't have to read the whole thing.

Caleb Smith: Jay Richmond, the head of MPA, along with other supporters of the book bans believe in the right of parents to decide what is best for their kids. They advocate against topics like mask mandates, and teaching critical race theory, emphasizing the importance of choice.

Kate: The book banning was initiated by the Northland parent association. I had been following the Northland parent association for a while. They started gaining popularity last school year at the end, and then this summer, they held a conference that was basically just a bunch of these angry, far right wing parents like rallying together, and they were all upset about masking and critical race theory and, you know, exclusive topics in schools.

Caleb Smith: This is why it's so strange that the supporters of MPAA, the parents may not even have children in the school district they are rallying against.

Phedre: Because it's a giant parent association, the speakers that go and speak up at districts may not necessarily be parents of any children that are in the school district, Miss Kraft, went and spoke at my school district board meeting, but her kids are currently enrolled in a Liberty school. So they're just one giant association, and they go and speak about books and masks, because they want, they claim that they want to take care of their children and make sure that they're the ones that are seeing their children, because they you know, seeing what their children learn about and all that because they're the ones that have the right to take care of their children, and that is true, but the thing is, is that their actions don't match their words, because if they cared for their children particular, they would not overreach the rights of other parents, because that's one thing, one parent may not want their kid to read these books in particular, and that's fine for you to want that for your own child, but when you go into school board meetings, and you're like, No child should read all Boys Aren't Blue, because it's got, you know, it's got gay people in it, and it's like, okay, but other parents may actually want their kids to read that other parents may be indifferent towards that. And it is kind of hypocritical of them to go parents’ rights matter and then completely forget that other parents exist and may actually want their kids to read these things.

Caleb Smith: The NPA made a list of over 25 books, they want to be removed from the district. That same week, the North Kansas City School Board banned four of those books from their school libraries.

Aurora Nicol: I was so surprised to see those on a list like Perks of Being a Wallflower was on there, and I was just like, what nothing happens in these books except for sex or racism, like characters experiencing racism, and by that mark, there are quite literally like thousands of books that need to be removed.

Caleb Smith: In response students Aurora Nicole and Holland Duggan started a petition against the book bans which received over 1100 signatures, but Aurora and Holland are the only students to speak up against the banned books. During the North Kansas City School District Board meeting in November of 2021. 10 students from the North Kansas City High School expressed their opinions on the issue. These students included presidents of the woman's empowerment club, the Asian student, union, and more.

Aurora Nicol: I made eight copies so each board member could get one, and I gave each one of them one, and so I and it literally just said, like every person who signed it their name and then if they made a comment, and I'm guessing those board members probably threw them out, but I really hope some of them kept them.

Caleb Smith: North Kansas City High School is the most diverse high school in the state of Missouri. And yet, it's still easy for students to feel like they don't belong. When books such as all Boys aren’t Blue were banned. It excluded people who would have been able to identify with the author and remove the representation they deserve.

Lynh: A lot of times it was just like, I was identified just on my race and I wish I could have been more than just an Asian, like, girl at the school.

Caleb Smith When right-wing conservative groups such as the Northland parent association, or Mom's for Liberty advocated for removing these books on the basis that they include pornographic or sexual content. They're not acknowledging the true meaning or themes behind these books.

Ashley Perez: It also is clear that these are folks who aren't reading, even if they're not reading these books, they're not reading a lot of other things to, you know, they're not paying attention to the fact that it's not just authors with marginalized identities are writing about marginalized characters who we’re writing about, you know, frankly, about sexual experience or violence are those themes have been in literature since Shakespeare since Chaucer, way before that, the Bible which I've taught as literature at the university level, and I grew up in a Bible Church. So, I know the Bible really well. The Bible is full of graphic depictions of sex, right? Male genitals, incest, like really harmful sexual encounters, murder, like vivid, you know, not, we're not just talking about a mention that it happens. So, these things things exist even in books that we go to as a source of wisdom, the politicians and the political organizations that are pushing the talking points that provide a handbook on here's what you should say, I mean, they're all over online, you can find all the passages that some people think mean Out of Darkness as a terrible book for young people, and you can find the talking points, you never even have to read the book, to be able to make a challenge.

Caleb Smith: Rather than the actual content of the books. Several of the students from North Kansas City High School believe that the MPs decision to censor these books wasn't due to the content, but the refusal to center a white male perspective.

Lynh: If you can change the way that children learn, if you can change what they learn as well, then you have created a new generation of people who think just like you, they use the word pornographic as just the reasoning, but books such as like fences, the only mention of like pornography really in there is just the main character cheating on his wife, which I find it very interesting, because most of these book came from people of color. So I think it's just a facade to their real intentions of banning books that provide a different perspective on marginalized groups.

Caleb Smith: Due to stress from these books, the North Kansas City school district passed over the formal process of removing these books from libraries exacerbating the issue.

Lynh: They're getting really frustrated, because they're supposed to get notified that books are being you know, taken off the shelves, and they didn't get any notification. So it was really frustrating at the time, because it definitely showed that our district was susceptible to that kind of rhetoric that says, you know, oh, these books need to be banned, because this and this, but I am so proud of our district's ability to bounce back from that and to go, No, we're going to keep these books.

Caleb Smith: The books ended up being back on the shelves within the same month, the morning the North Kansas City High School students spoke up at the board meeting.

Aurora: They took away those books for a month in my library. But during that month period, when I you know, the petition was going, my friend Holland reached out to the to the ACLU. And the ACLU also threatened our district that they were going to sue them for removing the books. So they put the books back in the library, kind of the same day that my classmates and I went to speak to our school board.

Caleb Smith: Although the issue was resolved in that school district book banning is still a nationwide problem. For students without easy access to a free public library. Taking these books off the shelves could restrict them entirely.

Ashley Perez: And in fact, the students who most rely on school libraries for access like my students in Houston, some of whom did not have the time or resources outside of school to go to the public library and check out something if it had been removed from our library. So, it was really important that they could find things in the school library.

Caleb Smith: Of course, parents have the right to oversee what their kids read in order to protect them. However, district-wide book bans are not necessary for individual parents to protect their own children. They're already methods in place for parents to accomplish this.

Lynh: I have met some parents, I talked to some parents who don't want their kids to read that. And I think that those parents should just abide to like the regular library rules are already set in place where if you don't want your, you know, kid to read the material, then you can go on to the school website, and, you know, block your kid from checking out those things. That's always been, you know, I thing you could have done but these parents are completely ignoring that and that just speaks to how discriminatory they are.

Caleb Smith: By letting a group of people decide for other parents with their children can read. It takes away the rights of many parents to decide what they want for their children to have access to, and even when books are put back on shelves, it can have lasting effects. This can include both soft, and self-censorship.

Ashley Perez: Self-censorship can be more like a principal making comments to the librarian to signal we don't really need more books like X, Y, or Z, even though those books may be important for young people in the library, and the librarian’s job is to fill that library with the books that you all need that meet your needs, and no book is going to be for everybody, right, but if someone needs that book, it needs to be in the library.

Caleb Smith: Perez is an established author and a professor, she does not have to rely on her bookselling to make a living, but for many newer authors, book bans could be their downfall.

Ashley Perez: In my case, I'm a university professor. So I have a job that helps me feed my two kids, even if none of my books sell or I never get asked to do another school visit, which would break my heart, but I haven't done a single school visit since all of this started, because schools don't want to create controversies. Um, but I will be okay financially. However, there are authors who depend on book sales for a living and there are new authors like this is my third book, I have two books that are under contract, so I don't have to worry that my next book is not going to get published because of this book ban stuff. People who are publishing their first book and having it banned, could be the end of a career.

Caleb Smith: As parents and schools implement these bands, they turn a blind eye to the meaning behind these books, and their impact on the students that read them. Books like Maus teach important historical themes relating to the Holocaust, resonating with a great number of Americans.

Aurora: Maus is a story written and illustrated by Art Spiegelman. It is the only graphic novel to ever win a Pulitzer Prize. And it follows the story because it was originally presented between the seventh 1970s and 1980s in a series of chapters, but it follows the story of Art Spiegelman's father and his father's life as it was in the Holocaust from like, just before the Holocaust to when the war is over, and they were able to come to America. And it's, it's this really just, like, heartbreaking tale. And it's, it definitely, it plays on the trope because during the Holocaust, Jewish people were primarily associated with vermin. So like as an there are, there's a direct quote from Hitler in mouse that equates Jewish people with vermin. So Art Spiegelman takes that and uses that and all of the Jewish people in the book are depicted as mice.

Caleb Smith: If sweeping book bands related to these events continue, then the new generation cannot learn from their mistakes that we have made in the past.

Lynh: I'll admit, I had no idea why Jewish people were stereotyped as being like money, hoarders like that whole stereotype until I read Maus, and then when I read Maus, I was like, Oh, dang, that's why because when they were in the Holocaust, they had to use their personal objects and items, like that's why they had to be, you know, smart about how they got their money, because they needed to be because if they didn't, they wouldn't survive, and I didn't know that. Had I not read Maus, or had I not, you know, actively gone out and go, I want to read Maus or I want to learn more about this. If I had not had that mindset of wanting to learn, I would never have gotten, I'd never had deepened my perspective, and it changed what I knew. It's a very excellent book, and I it definitely made me like helped me learn a lot and it helped just paint this bigger picture because when we learn about Holocaust in our history classes, it's often this nebulous idea of terror instead of something personal and the book definitely brings how horrible it was, it brings it personal and it brings it close.

Caleb Smith: Fences. A play by August Wilson is centered around the life of Troy Maxon, and his complex relationships with other characters. It explores his thwarted dream of playing in the major leagues for baseball, as a black man and his conflicted relationship with his wife and son. Troy is a tragic hero, someone who displays how the long standing division between black and white affects future generations of black Americans. explicit content happens everyday in the real world. These books are in elementary school libraries, and rarely are the they in middle school ones. These books are meant for high schoolers, who may be months away or years from becoming an adult. Even if readers are not able to relate with these characters. Reading gives them the opportunity to learn from them.

Aurora: All Boys aren't Blue like I am queer myself. So that has a personal connection to me and I know that queer stories are very graphic and dark and that we don't we shouldn't hide those aspects of queer stories or you know, any other types of stories because it is reality that people face this and people should learn about it. These kids who don't get that type of support at home and don't get that type of support other places. can't access them, and so you know, school is a safe place to talk about those types of topics. In all honesty, like those types of topics should be discussed that schools like in our IB literature class, we definitely talk about like rape in books, and we talk about molestation and all these like hard topics because it's an educational environment where we can explain you know, the depth of them and what they represent, and I think that's an important opportunity that all kids should get out of.

Caleb Smith: Out of darkness, All boys aren't blue, Fences, Maus are just several of the hundreds of books being banned nationwide. They are under attack being called filth, disgusting, inappropriate, or pornographic, but books like these have had positive effects on so many students. Books like these allow students to relate to the characters to learn from their actions to understand the world from a different perspective. Books like these are more than the cuss words, violent explanations, or explicit material of the content inside. Books like these should be judged based on the intention of the author, and the message they try to convey through their writing. By keeping these books, it allows us as a society that is more inclusive and welcoming towards the decisions children make about their sexuality, race, status, religion, and identity. It helps us break the trauma and challenges children face today. When parents Facebook groups, school districts refuse to have these books in schools, when they call these books, filth, disgusting, inappropriate, and pornographic, they exclude people who may have experienced those things, they exclude people who may relate with the characters, and they take away the opportunity for students to learn.

Ashley Perez: It is a tragedy too, because there's a there's a lot of harm and hurt in this book. In spite of that, I hear from readers that they end the book both like heartbroken and hopeful because they see what that the family that Wash and Naomi and the kids make, should be given room in the world. Right, and maybe in this day and age, there's not the same level of negative response to interracial relationships that there was at the time, but there are other forms of love, that don't have space to thrive, and I think that it's really powerful to fallen in love ourselves with characters, and then want them to have space to grow and care for each other, and when they don't get to have that space. I think it makes readers and certainly makes me want to build a better world. I want a world where that love is possible. I want a world where young people get to matter and feel safe in their schools. And that's not the world that Washington, Naomi live in, and it's not the world that we live in either, and there's a lot of work to do.

Caleb Smith: As books are still being banned in several states and more soon to come. We hope the truth comes to light on what banning these books can truly do to society. Thank you for listening to our final episode on book bans. For a transcript of this episode, head to the point of view tab on our website, nhsmessenger.org and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook at @nhspointofview for more updates and new episodes. I'm your host Caleb Smith, and this has been Point of View.

Across the Table - Superheroes

Rachel Everett, Caleb Smith, Jonah Chadwin, Dhruv Singh

In this episode, staffers Dhruv, Caleb, Jonah, and Rachel discuss their opinions on Spiderman: No Way Home, the Marvel Cinematic Universe and superheroes as a whole. Listen on Spotify or Apple Music.

Dhruv: Hello and welcome to point of view where we give students a place to listen and learn. We're your hosts, Dhruv,

Caleb: Caleb,

Jonah: Jonah,

Rachel: and Rachel.

Dhruv: And today we'll be talking about Spider Man, the recent movie, and superheroes as a whole. We won't be getting into spoilers until later in the episode, so I'll give you a warning when we start that. Okay, so recently, we're kind of been like, the biggest theme in Entertainment has been superheroes. Wouldn’t you guys agree?

All: Yeah.

Dhruv: So I like, at least for me, I feel like you can kind of see these like themes like, over history, like they're like cowboys in the 60s and like sci-fi mania stuff, like what you guys think like,

Caleb: Would you consider Indiana Jones like a super?

Dhruv: Yeah, There was like a point where like action movies and like, like, heist stuff was really popular, like Ocean's 11. Like,

Caleb: I never really got into Indiana Jones. But like, I've heard that that's been like a big thing, especially like, back in the day. I don't remember when that came out though. When did it come out?

Dhruv: Like the 80s.

Caleb: 80s. Okay, yeah.

Dhruv: So like, I think that if we're like, following those trends, we're kind of in like a big superhero. I guess renaissance right now, like superhero movies have been around a long time. But now they're kind of, they look a lot a lot different.

Caleb: They're very different from when they were before. But they're at like its peak right now. Especially with the animation and what they're including and kind of like their ideas of how they're forming these movies together is like, yeah, really crazy.

Rachel: It seems to be like they're interweaving each other. And it's not just like one film and then another one, it’s the entire story.

Dhruv: Yeah, like the Marvel Cinematic Universe, like that's the term is like, I think it might have been the first to do that, you know, where you take different series. And you like, tie them together? And like, build off each other, like, tease each other and stuff. I don't actually know if anything has done it in that like regard before?

Jonah: I don't know. I don't think the DC has done it nearly as well.

Dhruv: Yeah, no, for sure. If we're talking, It also has a lot of like copycats. Yeah. Like, yeah, DC tried it. And then like there was a point where I think was universal was trying it with like their like horror movie.

Caleb: Like, stories can have sequels and like a like a movie after that. But they're, they don't really like connect, as well as what the Marvel Cinematic Universe is doing. Kind of like building off each other each, like each movie, and kind of getting better as they go.

Jonah: Yeah. And they have stuff planned out for the next I think six years. I think Kevin Feige said in an interview.

Caleb: Yeah, that's crazy.

Dhruv: I think it's, it's kind of like a TV show, right? Like, you get connected to these characters. Because you have so much time with them. Yeah. And like, you get to spend like several episodes with one character, you build them up, you like have like multiple conflicts and stuff. And like, a cinematic universe kind of does the same thing. It's just on a much larger scale, like bigger budgets. Yeah, like, I guess more fleshed-out stories and stuff. And like, I personally feel like there are some downsides to that. Like, I know, it's kind of controversial just to like, because I love Marvel movies and stuff, and I love superhero movies. They're some of the most fun like, they deliver themes and stuff while also being fun without like requiring too much thought and stuff. So I think they're like, really accessible by a wide audience. The thing is, though, that I kind of feel like when you have such a large amount of like entertainment right now being one thing. Like, I think Marvel is like 1/4 of the entertainment industry right now.

All: Yeah.

Dhruv: I feel like it can get like-

Caleb: Overwhelming?

Dhruv: Yeah.

Caleb: Um, I guess I could agree. But I think all the content that they're putting out is almost trying to build their fan base even more than what it already was. Yeah, Marvel has been popular for like, for what- decades? I don't know how long it's like been a thing. Like, even before, like, back in the comics, like they had a lot of fans and stuff. But I think that with all the content they're putting out, it could seem overwhelming, but I do love like enjoying seeing that. Because when movies come out they’re like two years apart, but if they're putting out the TV shows and the movies, like kinda like not back to back, but they're in close in proximity. I think that it kind of gets us closer to those characters in the story.

Jonah: Yeah, and in a few years, they'll have more than I think 40 projects and for new people that are just jumping on that's gonna be really hard for them to get into it.

Dhruv: It’s intimidating.

Jonah: But I feel like it's definitely worth it. There are a lot of stories that you can just like watch on your own and some series that you can watch on your own without needing to know the other things.

Dhruv: Yes.

Rachel: Do you also think that it's kind of getting oversaturated?

Dhruv: I think I think that like- I know I personally, before this most recent Spider Man movie, I was kind of feeling burnt out on it. Because I've been like a big superhero fan like I’ve loved Spider Man since I was like really young and stuff like all this. But you know, after like seeing Marvel so much over the last few years I saw those three shows they released like the Captain America and Loki and WandaVision stuff.

Jonah: Yeah.

Dhruv: And like after that I just kind of feeling burnt out. I wasn't that interested in like any new movies that they were gonna release. I won't lie, Spider Man kind of brought me back on though.

Caleb: Yeah, that was a crazy movie.

Dhruv: But I do think that like oversaturation and just like the sheer amount of content, like it kind of makes each one less special for me. At least, I can see like-

Caleb: I can see your point.

Jonah: I see your point. I just, I disagree, because I feel like it just, they all have their own thing about them. Yeah. And they are all so different. And I just, they don't get boring for me. I don't, I don't think they ever will for me.

Rachel: I think that like it's almost intimidating, but also at the same time, it's just so much and not enough time in a way. Like back in early 2021, WandaVision came out, then like a week later, Falcon and the Winter Soldier came out, and then Loki and then there was just so much other stuff. And it's like, you don't have enough time to catch up. Like, I haven't been able to watch all of Hawkeye yet. And I'm just like trying to find the time. It's just-

Caleb: But I think like with these, like TV shows, I think Marvel's aspect was that although movies take a lot longer to make, I think that with them putting these shows out, it's almost giving us this like leisure time where we can watch this at home, and then in that time, they're making movies that we can go see once those are finished. So that way we could like, I mean, not necessarily like kind of keep intact of what's going on in this universe. And like kind of how everything will connect once that next big movie comes out kind of like Spider-Man: No Way Home.

Jonah: Yeah. And I really liked even diving deeper into those characters that we haven't seen as often that might be overlooked like Hawkeye, Wandavision and Bucky and Falcon using them more, they've gotten more screentime than some of those other bigger characters because they've got their own series now.

Dhruv: I think like if we're talking about the characters specifically, like, we like zoom out a little bit to talk about superheroes. I think it's really interesting that they're like, they're having like, they're like seen in a different form now. And I think they're kind of like folktales if you think about it, yeah, they've been around for like, a long, long time, like since the 50s. Like somebody's like Spider Man's like the 60s and 70s and a ton of different iterations. But like, when you reduce it to its core, it is kind of like just like, it's something to like latch on to. It's like something to relate to. It's like a story that like a kid can like, really enjoy like learn lessons from. Dometimes there will also be like really goofy comic book like storylines and stuff, but the main like, essence is like- you guys have any thoughts on that?

Jonah: I feel like for all of us, there's a Marvel character out there that we can all relate to, probably a lot of them.

Caleb: Even like Kate Bishop. I think that kind of like storytelling, like if we were in Kate bishops position, like her looking at Hawkeye, I think well, this is kind of a spoiler if you guys haven’t watched the Hawkeye series yet, but just Kate Bishop looking up to Hawkeye and just seeing him on the side of the building. And like saving people, even when there's aliens, he had no powers like the rest of his, like the rest of the Avengers. She kind of took up that and was like, wow, okay, I'm gonna take this lesson. I'm gonna learn to fight people. And then she got really good at archery and knew how to find that sort of thing.

Dhruv: Yeah, I think that at their best, like superhero movies are just, they go deep on a character or they show you like a character that you can kind of relate to. And then there's just like fun action on top of that stuff. Like it's fun movies. I think that the core though, is that character, like, when they're my issue with them is that sometimes like, a movie will come out and that character is missing. It feels like it's just part of like the cinematic universe and stuff.

Caleb: What example would you give?

Dhruv: I'd say something like, like the first Dr. Strange, right? I love him. I think he's super cool. But that first movie, I feel like he's kind of bland. At least in that first one. But yeah, I think he's coming into his own. I'm really excited for this next one.

Jonah: Yeah, I feel like at the beginning they sort of had to experiment with that character and get to learn him better and as it goes throughout I feel like they're doing better. And with Multiverse of Madness, I feel like they're gonna do better and make it his movie.

Dhruv: Yeah, like that's what I'm saying. Like, I think that when they are just using like a character or like a movie as a piece of a larger thing to like, build up to something. I think that's when I feel like okay, maybe the cinematic universe is detracting from like these individual pieces. You know what I mean? Also, sometimes like, something interesting about the cinematic universe, right, is the concept of like a bunch of different artists or directors coming and like making their own movie, and like their own unique style and then like, fitting into this larger piece and like you get like this like tapestry of a bunch of different styles and stuff. But the thing is, is that I feel like that's a missed opportunity because like sometimes these Marvel movies end up like looking the same. There's like not much unique voice in each one. I don't know if you guys disagree.

Jonah: Yeah, I feel like recently I feel like they've gotten better. Eternals felt really different than the other movies, Shang-Chi felt really different. And with all the new stuff they're putting out, I feel like they're all diving deeper into different sections, like, the Agatha show that they announced will dive deeper into the magic, like, just Multiverse of Madness and into that reality kind of thing.

Dhruv: Like making each individual piece pop more. Yeah. Like, I'm glad to see they're doing that a little bit more.

Jonah: Yeah, in the earlier days, they all had that same sort of tone. Yeah.

Caleb: Would you say they did that with No Way Home?

Jonah: I would say yeah.

Dhruv: I did think that No Way Home had a little bit more of like an individual voice. I think that like, I'll just leave like one last note on like, something. There's like, what was it- Martin Scorsese said something about Marvel movies- which gets thrown around a lot like every interview with a Marvel actor- they're asked like, “What do you think of what Martin Scorsese said?”. He said like that Marvel movies aren't cinema. He said they aren't cinema because they're like, theme park rides.

Jonah: Yeah, I've heard that.

Dhruv: And the thing is, is that that's like, really, it's pretty pretentious. And it like comes off really self-like dramatic and stuff. But I kind of see what he's saying sometimes.

Jonah: I kind of see it.

Dhruv: Because here's the thing, right? Okay. Okay. I see you nodding.

Rachel: I think Caleb and I agree. Or don’t understand.

Dhruv: Let me explain myself. Let me explain myself, right, because I get what you mean, it is really pretentious. And I think the way he said it was kind of like “They aren't cinema.” like is really like up his snooty. But when you watch an individual movie, right, it's like, it's a whole story. There's like a lot of thought that goes into it like, let me think of a movie. If I'm watching, like, shoot, give me a second.

Caleb: Dune.

Dhruv: Uh, well, that's also like a part of a franchise and stuff.

Caleb: Oh, is it actually?

Dhruv: Yeah, well, there’s like going to be sequels like, but let me think like, this movie, like Blindspotting. It's just a random movie. It's like its own story. It like has some characters when you watch it at the beginning and like, by the time it comes to the end, you've seen what like the people who made it like intended, like, it's a full story, there’s characters, like all this stuff. With a Marvel movie, you're watching like a piece. It's like a cog, you know, it's not like its own, like full machine, or at least sometimes it might feel like that. Yeah, instead it comes out as like, one piece that's building up to something larger. And also, they're like, sometimes they can be like, very corporate, or it can feel like it or something. It might not feel like personal. And in that regard, I can kind of see what he means by like, they're not the same as like a full singular movie.

Jonah: Yeah.

Caleb: Is that what you consider cinema?

Dhruv: Well, okay, I disagree with what like, what he said, but I can kind of see like a point. I mean, I don't want to come off as like- I still love Marvel Movies I'm like a dude. I see Spider Man, I’m like Oh!

Caleb: Yeah, every Marvel movie I get hyped.

Dhruv: I love them to be clear. I just like I think that that it’s an interesting point. There might be something to be said there. You know what I mean? Yeah, like, I don't know if you guys still disagree.

Jonah: I mean, not many Marvel movies have like, they all have really good acting. But how many Marvel movies have really won Oscars? Like Black Panther was, I think the only one?

Dhruv: Or it was nominated.

Jonah: Or yeah, it might have been nominated. Did it win any?

Caleb: I don’t think so.

Dhruv: I don't think so. No, it was GreenBook, which I don’t know was as good, either. But like, you know, I just, I think there's an interesting idea there. But where some people take like a stance, like, oh, all Marvel movies, they aren't on the same level and stuff. I think that's… With some of these Marvel movies, there's a lot of love that goes into them. You know, you can really tell like, I'm not trying to take away from that at all. I just think, I feel like it's a little bit different. Yeah.

Caleb: It's definitely different than a lot of the movies that we see today. I think they're doing their own thing. And they're succeeding at it, too.

Jonah: Yeah. I don't think they really care if they like win Oscars.

Dhruv: For sure.

Jonah: I feel like they just care about making the fans happy, giving the fans what they want to say. I feel like they've done that pretty well.

Dhruv: I think when they're at their best, they're just making like, just putting love into like a fun movie that you will really enjoy.

Rachel: I kind of like that whole aspect of not trying to win Oscars. Because you definitely can see movies that are like trying really hard to.

Dhruv: For sure. they're always pretentious.

Rachel: Yes. They're like trying to be so like dramatic and so like insightful and then you just go to a Marvel movie and you're just like let's have a good time.

Caleb: It’s just good entertainment.

Dhruv: Yeah. Sometimes you forget that like sometimes you need something simple.

Caleb: Yeah, you need something with like a bunch of different aspects of the storyline. Have you guys ever seen Cherry?

Dhruv: Cherry?

Jonah: With Tom Holland? Yeah.

Caleb: That movie, I feel like was trying to win an Oscar. Yeah, it just had a lot going on, it was actually really crazy. Watch it, but it's a long movie. But the question I have for you guys is, what do you think your favorite Marvel movie is? Or superhero movie?

Dhruv: Favorite superhero movie?

Rachel: Don't start with me. I’ll have to think about it. You go first.

Jonah: No Way Home easily.

Caleb: Okay. Ah, I might have to agree with you on that one. That movie was really good.

Jonah: I like the big climatic ones like Infinity War and Endgame.

Caleb: I would say it's either No Way Home or Endgame.

Dhruv: I like those but, well this is me. Like I love those like, bombastic super big stories. But for me, like my favorite is definitely Spider-Verse. I love that movie.

Caleb: Yeah? I’ve never seen it. Never seen it.

Jonah: If that was live-action that would be everybody’s favorite. I feel like some people take away from that because it’s animated.

Dhruv: Dude, the fact that it’s animated makes it better though.

Caleb: Makes it better?

Dhruv: Yes, it makes it better! You’ve got to watch this movie.

Jonah: The style of the animation is so great.

Caleb: Okay, maybe I gotta watch it before I say anything. But like, real life? I don't know if it could ever compare to animation.

Rachel: I definitely think Caleb should watch the movie before he comments.

Caleb: Alright, I’ll watch it.

Dhruv: The reason I like it, right, is because it has the essence of this character that has like, it has a really good interpretation of Spider-Man in my opinion. And then it's like, the style is like, it's incredible. It's like unique, which is so much fun to see. It's like I was watching it and I just like couldn't believe what I was seeing. The music's incredible, like, the visuals. And the story is like, it feels like contained and I kind of like that sometimes I kind of like a personal.

Jonah: Yeah, it really feels like kind of like a comic book come to life because they have like, comic book catchphrases like BAM, WHAM like, in the art. It's so cool to see that.

Rachel: It definitely felt like it just flew off the page like left the pages.

Dhruv: Yeah, I recommend that movie if you're curious. If you haven't seen it.

Rachel: I cannot decide on a favorite Marvel movie more so because I follow characters rather than movies.

Dhruv: I see.

RacheI: I think Dhruv- just all of y'all- you have such an amazing eye for movies and like seeing them into depth. I just like characters and actors.

Dhruv: That's fine.

Caleb: What did you say your favorite character was?

Rachel: Either Bucky or Dr. Strange so I would say either.

Caleb: There's no way! You just said Captain America yesterday.

Rachel: No! My favorite movie is Captain America: The Winter Soldier or Doctor Strange.

Dhruv: I’m sorry for like trashing Doctor Strange.

Rachel: You're okay, I can kind of understand where you're coming from.

Dhruv: I like the visuals. I like the movie. The actual stuff is just the character.

Jonah: Yeah, that was the best part of Doctor Strange.

Rachel: The visuals are very, very impressive. But I like the magical element of Dr. Strange. I feel like seeing those possibilities is so… and seeing them delve into those possibilities in the magic. And even, actually, I can't say that. It's from Spider-Man so we will talk about that later.

Jonah: I like the side characters that steal the show in Marvel Movies. Like Karun the cameraman in Eternals. Morris from Shang-Chi, Yelena from Black Widow.

Rachel: Loki. The younger brother. Bucky.

Caleb: Yup.

Jonah: I love seeing those.

Dhruv: Okay, so two of us mentioned that No Way Home was our favorite and stuff and that's the one that just came out so let's talk about that one.

Rachel: But let's put a little spoiler warning.

Caleb: Yeah, let’s put a spoiler warning.

Rachel: If you have not watched the movie, do not listen. If you want to get it spoiled, then listen.

Dhruv: Go watch it and then run back and come listen.

Caleb: Let's just talk about our initial thoughts. You can go ahead Dhruv.

Dhruv: So, I love it. I think, you know if I'm looking at it like as a celebration of the character, like as a Spider-Man fan and just like a superhero movie. I think it's perfect. I think it hits all the notes like I would want it to and I had a ton of fun watching it.

Rachel: What notes did you want it to hit that it did hit or some examples?

Dhruv: Well like, I think it nailed the character. I think like- I watched it and I felt like there's like a story it wanted to tell, emotional beats it wanted to hit and it hit all those and I loved it. Like, it made me feel something and I think that's like the best thing a movie can do you know.

Caleb: I think that with this Spider-Man I think he's finally really become like Spider-Man, especially with the decisions that he made and then kind of the loss that he suffered. I feel like he's finally turning into the Spider-Man that is in the comics.

Jonah: Some people have criticized Tom Holland’s Spider-Man for being like IrOn BoY Jr but I feel like after this I feel like nobody can really say that.

Dhruv: You know all Spider-Man fans we love this. We do not want to see him winning we want to see him be at the worst point in his life.

Jonah: I feel like we saw that.

Rachel: For me, overall it was just like a lot. I'm one of those people that like gets really into movies and like experiences a lot of emotions. So I was like-

Caleb: Did you cry during this movie?

RacheI: I surprisingly did not. I came close to tears. I came close. There were tears in my eyes. I did not cry though.

Caleb: I cried.

Jonah: I bawled.

Rachel: Because I had stuff spoiled for me. So there wasn't like-

Caleb: See that's where it gets bad, like if you're spoiling a movie, then you like take away all of like the good feelings that come along when you see it for the first time. So that's why I had to see it like, the first day.

Dhruv: Okay, so we're in spoilers right now. So why don't we talk about the- let's talk about the overall concept. Like what happens in the movie and then we could talk about like, specific moments we liked. So, regarding the fact that they brought in- spoiler, spoiler- they brought in like, characters from other like, cinematic universe, like other series that were not part of it before. Like, I think that was a really cool idea.

Caleb: That was amazing, like, I had seen spoilers but like, like, um, I don't know what you want to call it, like people saying that they were going to be in the movie, but I didn't really like. I was having hope. But I didn't know if I truly believed it. And then when I finally saw it, I got so hype in the movie theater. Everybody in the back was screaming loud. That was the experience. Like I think I had the entire Northview senior class in that movie theater, like screaming loud, but no, I really loved that aspect that they added into it with adding Toby and Andrew.

Jonah: That was a really great movie experience. Just seeing everybody scream for your favorite characters. The Daredevil cameo coming. Yeah, Andrew saving MJ that was all.

Caleb: That made me cry like so hard. Yeah, something about it. Just like it hit super close to home. I don't even know why.

Dhruv: It’s a well written scene it’s great.It’s shot well. The movie also I know I said this earlier And actually, I feel like the director has like a more of a style on this one, you know? Yeah. Like the other ones feel kind of like flat I guess. Like yes, but like, it was a lot of fun to watch. Like, it was interesting. Like, there was like cool shots like the the CG is like great, obviously. Yeah. You like, it's just it there. Although there is one aspect of like, bringing in other characters like a celebratory thing that I'm worried about. I wonder if people are going to try and copy it.

Jonah: In the Flash movie. Weren't they gonna like bring back some characters like Michael Keaton’s Batman.

Dhruv: Okay, following the patterns in the DC universe right now. I feel like they're not going to be able to do it. That being said, this because of this recommendation, Aquaman is so bad. It's hilarious. It's so much fun. It's like the best DC movie I really recommend.

Caleb: It's not even that bad.

Dhruv: It's my favorite. But I think it's very silly. I think it's stupid. But I like that. Okay, I was like, happy with that.

Caleb: How’d we end up at Aquaman?

Rachel: In terms of like you saying, you wonder if there'll be any copycats.

Dhruv: Trying to do celebrations of like movies.

Caleb: That’s if they can even get that actor back.

Rachel: I was more so thinking about bringing other people into like the universe, but I also like, I know in like DC TV shows they have crossovers that are so confusing.

Caleb: But I think with the now they've actually confirmed that. Andrew, Andrew will be back and then Toby might be back for some more cameos in the future. So they actually like super fully back.

Dhruv: if they're like in it like

Caleb: It was cool. One time I don't know about Yeah, I don't know. I would love a third movie for Andrew Garfield. I don't know if it'd be the same.

Jonah: There was a reliable leak that said that there's gonna be a third movie with Gwen returning from like another universe as Spider-Gwen. In her universe Peter Parker dies. So that would be I think I'd love it.

Dhruv: So another thing like this movie kind of made me like, think about revisiting the old ones, right? Like the Tobey Maguire movies are great. Like that. They're like stylistic and there's so much fun. They're like they they know what they are. They're silly. Yeah, just like I will say I think the Andrew Garfield is like the best actor to portray Spider Man. I think he's very charismatic. I think he was my favorite to watch in the new one. I do feel like because of this movie, people are revisiting the Amazing Spider-Man movies and thinking like and saying they're better then they remember them being. I think those movies kind of suck.

Jonah: Those movies suck but I feel like Andrew being spider man wasn't the problem.

Caleb: I just rewatched them from Toby Maguire all the way down to the second movie for Andrew. And Toby's actually the quality and the entire like he's got to be the worst Spider Man. But he's still like I still love him like yeah, I have a love for him as a like a spider-man, but he didn't portray it well enough. And like the whole storyline was him and MJ like their whole like she didn't love she only loved spider-man she didn't love Peter Parker like I didn't really enjoy the Tobey Maguire I love the Amazing Spider Man. I think I thought those are for me.

Dhruv: I think personally, I feel like I agree with you that Toby Maguire like kind of like he's a good actor, but I think his portrayal is a little bit like it’s not as interesting. Yeah, and I think Andrew Garfield just really I love I think he's like my favorite pick but I just I just think his movies are really silly.

Jonah: His dynamic with Gwen was the best part of seeing them. That was great.

Dhruv: You think you want to talk about the villains in No Way Home bringing them back.

Rachel: Before we go to villains I do want to say I really enjoyed. Spoiler! I've we've already given a spoiler warning but when they were atop the Statue of Liberty it was really.

Dhruv: The banter.

Rachel: The back and forth with everyone was so nice.

Dhruv: I wanna see deleted scenes for this movie now because I'm sure there's a lot of those that they cut.

Caleb: Especially them interacting with each other like. When Ned yelled Peter and then all of them responded like that sort of thing. That was really good as like like they did really well with the movie that's all I can say like 10 out of 10 for Marvel.

Dhruv: Yeah, I think it's a great Spider Man movie I think it like wraps up the character well

Jonah: Well talking about the villains I feel like Green Goblin was just wow.

Caleb: I can't believe they got him back. I thought he was too old to come back.

Jonah: He was scary. He was a scary villain to see when like Peter was punching him as hard as he can, he’s just laughing.

Dhruv :I feel like Willem Dafoe is like the best actor.

Caleb: I didn’t realize that he was that strong I forgot that Green Goblin could do that.

Dhruv: I think they do some of the characters. I do think that Sandman and Lizard they weren't like given as much development which makes sense because they weren't as big they weren't as big of favorites also, I don't know if they're actors were actually there. I’m pretty sure the live action shots of them towards the end of movie are actually just reused shots.

Caleb: That like there was no like speaking like and then the same for Curtis Connor. I think thats his name Lizard. Yeah, he didn't do any like it looks like the same faces he was making in The Amazing Spider Man. I know that they were there but like, it's crazy.

Jonah: Yeah, I know that Sandman his shots like when you just actually saw him as a human were from the other movie.

Caleb: So that’s confirmed.

Jonah: Yeah. Okay. I'm not sure if those are though.

Dhruv: I think they redeem Electro. I think he’s really goofy in the Amazing Spider-Man movies.

Jonah: I love him.

Dhruv: I like this version of him quite a bit better.

Caleb: You like this one better?

Dhruv: I like this one better. I think he's more like entertaining to watch. He’s just kind of mustache twirling. He's pretty evil.

Jonah: He’s more comic accurate too with the yellow lightning.

Dhruv: Yeah, it's cool.

Jonah: I feel like they really took us on a big roller coaster ride because you have like Aunt May’s super sad death. And but then like, maybe five minutes later. Oh, Andrew and Toby are here. Yeah, they're like so happy that they're but oh, no Aunt May’s gone.

Dhruv: I think. Um, if I've one criticism for the movie, watching it again. I was so excited for the second half that the first half drag for me. Yeah, I think it works well on the first watch.

Jonah: I just like I feel like the first parts really good, but I feel like the second part just blows it out of the water.

Caleb: They brought in Doc Ok pretty early, though. Pretty early.

Dhruv: Yeah. Well, he was we knew about him beforehand and I think he was great. Yeah, really good job. The actor Alfred Molina. He's just great. He's like a super good actor and stuff. So it's fun to watch.

Rachel: Do we have any final thoughts before we end?

Dhruv: Yeah, overall, I just feel like this movie serves as like a great origin for this for the Marvel Universe as like Peter Parker, I think yeah, sums up the character. I think it's like, it's my personal favorite of the three Spider Man movies.

Jonah: This trilogy really like is a coming of age story. And those next that next trilogy is really gonna dive deep into him being on his own.

Caleb: I do wish that we got like more of an origin story for him. But I like where I went.

Jonah: Yeah, there's an animated series that they announced called freshman year that's going to be an animated and like thing that's going to be its origin story. Oh, that'll be cool. To see more of them.

Rachel: I'm for my final thoughts for superheroes in general. Or I guess the MCU in general. I'm looking forward to how this will set up future movies. Yeah, it definitely set up multiverse of madness.

Dhruv: Yeah, also Sam Raimi is directing that but yeah.

Caleb: I can't wait to see what Marvel as a whole is gonna do. Because the entire MCU is doing a really good job. I hope they don't end up falling off anytime soon. For about the next few years, who knows? Maybe Yeah, I don't know. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Dhruv: This concludes this episode of Across the Table. Thank you so much for listening. For a transcript of this episode, head to the point of view tab on our website, nhsmessenger.org and follow us on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at @nhspointofview for updates and new episodes. We've been your hosts Dhruv,

Caleb: Caleb

Jonah: Jonah

Rachel: and Rachel and this has been Point of View.

Across the Table - Girls in Gaming

Rachel Everett, Sofia Mang, Grace Yang

In this episode, staffers Grace, Rachel, and Sofia discuss issues girls face in the gaming community and how they have overcome them. Listen here on Spotify!

Rachel: Hello, and welcome to Point of View, where we give students a place to listen, learn and lean in. We’re your hosts, Rachel,

Grace: Grace,

Sofia: And Sofia. And today we'll be discussing the gaming community's attitude towards females and how it has affected us personally. So a lot of people know that girls are generally not well received in gaming lobbies. I know for me specifically, there's been multiple times where a lot of guys have been really misogynistic towards me, especially if they found out that I'm a girl if I start talking, and it's not even just misogynistic, they're sometimes sexual towards me. And it just makes gaming overall, something that should be enjoyed turned into something that is just enjoyable, you know?

Grace: Yeah, I feel like, well to be fair, I don't really talk in team chat a lot. Because I've seen how people react to girls, so I'm like, I don't want to have that. So I just like, I don't communicate with my teammates, but sometimes that can be bad if you have call-outs and you can't really communicate with them. But sometimes it's scary because like, me personally, I'm just scared that when they hear my voice, they’ll jump on it, and say something, and I just, I don't do well receiving criticism, or getting bashed, so I just don't talk.

Rachel: I'm one of those people that tries to see the positive in everyone. So no matter what, I'll just always talk in lobbies. Like, I'm not like, I'm always kind of afraid of what might happen. But I don't really play longer games so I play quick, easy games like Spike Rushes. So I'm not too afraid of talking and doing call-outs. But I have experienced like, in those longer games, it's more of like, you feel you run into more of a chance of being insulted or being sexualized or misogynistic towards. So it's one of those things that's like, sometimes you want to talk and sometimes you don't.

Grace: I mean, a lot of times, I feel like it can be fun sometimes. Because if you get lucky enough to have a team that's either fun or doesn't really care that you're a girl, sometimes they don't say anything, or they'll go along with it. And they're like, I'll buy you skins or I'll buy you guns or something. And then like, sometimes they're more welcoming, which is still pretty nice. It's nice to see that people have sort of opened up more to girls playing these games with them and not really jumping to insult them.

Sofia: Usually, what I do is, whenever I'm playing a game, like Rachel was saying, in the longer games you're more afraid of getting that kind of backlash because it's more serious and it's taken more seriously, especially by the other players. So I really only talk if I'm doing well. And then sometimes, after I talk, then the whole team is very welcoming like you said, and it's a good experience. Because then you can actually have fun because it's way more fun when you can actually talk to your team and have fun with them. But then, sometimes if you talk, then you do get backlash. Like, one time I was playing this one game, and I was doing really well. We were winning. And all of a sudden I talked and for some reason, two of my teammates, they were guys, and they just did not like the fact that I was a girl and they completely left the game. So we ended up losing because they weren't playing anymore. And it's just like that kind of that hesitant moment where you have to decide if you want to speak, if you want to reveal that your girl and it's gonna change the whole outcome of the game. Why is that a thing? You know? Why does that have to happen?

Grace: Yea that’s so stupid that you have to be scared to talk. But I feel like a lot of the backlash is just for no reason. It's simply because of your gender. Or like, they'll make assumptions that like, “Oh, you're bad at this game because you're a girl”. I really hate that because it just sort of puts you down and it slowly chips away at your self esteem. Even if you're like, “Oh, they're just random, I don't care.” Like even some people in person, if they know I play games, they’ll assume that I'm bad just because I'm a girl or they'll make other assumptions.

Rachel: And Grace, you’re on the ESports team, aren't you?

Grace: Yes.

Rachel: See, that's more proving the fact that just because you're a girl doesn't mean you're bad. Like, we have Grace on the eSports team and that's really amazing and really awesome. But it is sad that it's almost expected that you're bad when you play as a girl. Like, when I reveal that I'm a girl sometimes, I get self conscious of every single move I make, like I beat myself up over every decision- if it's good or bad if I don't hit a shot, or if I just completely spray because I do that a lot. I just hold down the trigger button. But it’s just sad.

Sofia: Yea, there's so many stereotypes that just are enforced on “gamer girls” I guess. Like there's so many different agents in different games. Like obviously, in every different game there's different roles like DPS or damage and then support and for girls, they're always expected to play support, they're always expected to kind of be the person who doesn't really do much. They just have to do whatever people tell them to. And like for me, Sage in Valorant, she's like a healer. And in league, there's also healers. But everyone always expects you to play that healer, to be that person who just does whatever the male wants, I guess. And I don't really know why these stereotypes have come into gaming in the first place because gaming should be a unisex experience, it should be a universal kind of thing that everyone can do. And it sucks that gender was kind of roped into it.

Rachel: Going off of your Sage comment, when I was first learning how to play Valorant, I certainly played Sage a lot more, because she's kind of like, she's a good starter character. But I feel like a lot of girls do feed into the whole thing of Sage- and this is not to insult you Sofia. But just in general, it's like a lot of girls do kind of go into playing Sage more often and doing those support roles. And while there are of course, many people who go out of support roles, like I play Viper, and she's a controller. It's like maybe certain girls are scared to venture out of those support roles. And they really need to try and adventure into other roles and other categories.

Grace: I think the reason why a lot of girls pick the support role, I think it's just because we’re new to the game. Because like, when I was picking up League, I knew it was a really hard game and that there's a really steep learning curve. I picked the support role, because I knew you have another person with you in lane. So if you lose lane, it's not completely your fault. And also, I just knew it was less mechanically challenging. And because I didn't have any experience, like with a keyboard and mouse before, I just picked a role that I thought would help me get into the game easier. And I think that's true for a lot of girls because, like only recently have games been more marketed towards girls or have they been more open to girls. Because before, when we were all in like elementary school and middle school, games were only for guys which is why a lot of girls don't have experience. And I think that's why sometimes we'll choose more supporting roles. And I think even then the supporting roles, like just because everybody says “Oh they’re easy” and stuff. There's a lot of aspects of them that are important. Like for example in Valorant if you're like… what's it called? The guy who like runs in?

Sofia: Duelist?

Grace: Oh yeah is that like a duelist? I feel like a duelist you can just run in and get headshots like no brain anything. But if you're a controller or a Sage, you have to think about flanks and other stuff like that. It’s the same thing in league. Like, if you’re a support you have to think about more macro plays and other stuff that's going on in the game, not just mechanically, but what is going on IN your lane.

Sofia: Yeah, I like what you said about playing support characters when you're new, especially because you felt like if you did something or if your lane lost, it wouldn't be your fault. And I think that's something that also plays into Valorant and the reason why Valorant players also choose the support characters, because it's all about not getting blamed. Because especially being a girl, obviously if you're a bad player, in general, no matter your gender, you're gonna get blamed for losing the game. But for a girl, you don't really like to have that blame, especially if you're already not confident enough in the way that you play. Like sometimes I'm not confident enough in my own skills, no matter how long have played, no matter all the things I've done, I'm just not confident. And so I play these support characters because I don't want to be blamed for the game. If I did play a duelist like you said, and I didn't get those kills and I didn't win the game for my team, then I would be blamed and it would be even worse so because I'm a girl. I feel like the whole blame thing is just so scary for girls in the game. Rachel: I feel like, going off a very, very heavy stereotype, guys kind of go in running and gunning and they fit more of the duelist. Because like you said, duelists can just completely run and get headshots like nobody's business, but they're not focusing on strategy per se. But with sentinels and support characters like Sage, you do have to worry about flank and it's more strategical. And that's like, I feel like girls are like, how do I say this? Girls more so think about the strategies rather than the actual gunplay and aiming and shooting.

Grace: I mean, these stereotypes, I think it's gotten so bad that it affects every single girl because it's always just because of their gender. So like, even to the point where it sort of invalidates you and it's like, “Oh, you're not good at this game” or “You can't play real games”, because there's that idea that real games are FPS or stuff like that. And they think that girls can only play Stardew Valley or Animal Crossing and like I love those games, of course. But one, it invalidates the types of games that are more peaceful and sandbox, and two it invalidate girls who want to play games in general.

Sofia: Yeah, like these pro girl gamers or these pro streamers, there's a lot of streamers that are actually really good at the game. They're really good at Valorant. But just because they did gain popularity, because they were conventionally attractive, it invalidates it for all the men, they're just like, “Oh, you're not good at this game. You're just pretty. That's why you have followers. You're not good at this game.” Like Katsumi, she's on Cloud Nine White, which is the pro Valorant team for women and that team is actually really good. They're one of the best women's teams, I'm pretty sure but she's less validated just because she's very soft spoken, she's very, just cute, you know? And so it makes people think she doesn’t hold as much value as she does, because she's a very good player and people just completely forget about that. Because, “Oh, she's pretty. That's why she has a platform. That’s why she has etc.”

Rachel: Going off of the whole pro gaming thing, I feel like when you're playing as a woman, as a girl, I know that what I said earlier, I scrutinize every single play I make. And I kind of let those really bad comments get to me. And it's like, maybe I shouldn't really be playing these games, maybe I just don't have the right skill set. Because, I've always watched my older brothers play video games, and I've always wanted to do these things. But I've never seemed to pick up on it. Like I've never played Comp or like the one time that I played I was playing with Irons. Like, I'm not very good at the game but it's still really fun. And having those invalidating experiences of going, “Oh, you're really bad at this. Why are you playing this? Go back to the kitchen.” which is what I've been told, when I just want to have fun and play the game. I don't necessarily want to go play simple sandbox games, like Stardew like you said, I want something action packed and exciting. Sofia: Yeah, like, I remember, I first got into gaming around quarantine because obviously, we had nothing to do at home. And I remember I specifically bought a whole PC, a whole setup just so I could play with my friends. And it was really fun for me because I first started the game and they would just always play with me because it's fun to play with someone who's new, it's fun to teach them. But then all of a sudden, as soon as I started playing more and more, and I got more people to play with me, those same people that I bought the PC for, that I played games with originally, they were the ones calling me boosted, they're the ones saying “Why are you playing this game? This is not for you.” Those same people that inspired me to play started all of a sudden degrading me. And that was really tough on me because it felt like “Why did I even buy this, I don't even enjoy myself anymore because people who made me enjoy it are now making me feel like I shouldn't be doing this.” And I invalidate myself because I am a higher rank than average in Valorant. And it's because I did play with my friends who are like very, very high and they helped me get to that rank, but it wasn't about just getting to that rank, it was just to have fun with them. And the fact that people will always say a girl never deserves a rank, a girl doesn't really deserve it so the girl has to literally prove themselves to that person specifically that they can do what they have portrayed that they can do. It's just hard to deal with.

Grace: And so I think it's a lot more uplifting to play with other girls because if you find, I know in Valorant, but if you find another girl in lobby it's sort of a relief that like “Oh, I have a comrade! Thank you.”

Rachel: Literally, like I've always asked “Oh are there any girls here” or I've been asked that and the moment you find out you just have an instant connection with that kind of person and I'm just like “Let's go!”

Sofia: Yeah like you wouldn't even have to talk to them or know them. You could just be like, “Are you a girl?” “I'm a girl” “Oh my god we're best friends” “I love you” and stuff like that and that's kind of a way that girls have made it better for themselves. We've made it a community that's easier for us because instead of just sitting there and being like “Wow, I wish this was better”, we actually made it better. And now that a lot of girls are getting into these games, a lot of people are becoming similar in that way and it's so much easier to join a lobby because sometimes there most likely will be another girl and then that makes it so much easier on us to play the game and it makes it easier on everyone because we support each other.

Grace: Yeah, I think that reaching out in lobby is really nice because even though there's these stupid toxic stereotypes or whatever, you can sort of get through that by making friends. And you can sort of bond over that experience because you know that you've both been flamed just for being a girl so you're not gonna do anything like that to them of course.

Rachel: If y'all know the stereotypes of COD lobbies where it's like a bunch of guys and they're insulting each other and yelling at each other. But when you're in lobbies with girls, I feel like we moreso uplift each other, rather than like, “Oh, that was a really bad shot, what the heck?” You're just like, “Oh, let's go. That was amazing.”

Sofia: Yeah, and I really like, just what we've done as a community to make it easier on us. Even the stereotypes that have been put on us with the certain agents that we've played like, yes, I do main Sage, I play her a lot. But it's not just because of the fact that she's a support role or she's easy to play, cuz everyone just says, “Oh, you play Sage, because you're a girl, she's easy to play.” It's more like, I've been taking that and, there’s this whole thing about battle Sages where because Sage can heal herself as well as other people, so she can also take initiative and kind of control the game in her own way. And I've been able to do that too. And I like how everyone's been able to just take these stereotypes and just turn it into something that works for them and it just empowers us, instead of bringing us down.

Grace: I mean, to be fair to the guys, because I don't want to bash them too much. There are some of them who are kind of nice, or maybe it's just because they're simping for a girl. Because I know once I was in a league lobby, and I was trying a new role for the first time and so I was getting flamed by the enemy, right? And they're like, “Wow you suck at this.” And I was like, “Gosh, thank you.” But then, I think one of them asked if we had any girls on our team and I was not gonna say that I was a girl. Like, I'm not gonna put myself out there. But then one of my friends typed “Oh, yeah, this person is a girl.” And then they were like, “Oh, I see.” And they were like, “Oh, yeah, that character that you're playing is actually eally hard to get into. So you'll get there eventually. Don't worry about it.” They actually got nicer to me, after they found out I was a girl which was really, really unexpected, but kind of nice.

Sofia: Yeah, I feel like we should give the people some credit, because it's not like every single lobby is full of horrible people. Like sometimes I'll be in a lobby and it's always like 50/50. But the times that there are just a bunch of positive guys who don't really care that I'm a girl or they don’t care about the fact that I'm a girl will affect the way I play. It's just, they see how I play firsthand and that's how they judge me. And so it's just really nice because even through all these kind of bad experiences and situations, there's always good things can come out of it. There's always good experiences that we sometimes disregard by letting the negative ones overpower it. And so we just have to remember that in a way too.

Rachel: I've met a few people just through having these amazing experiences with them in spike crushes. And I'm like, “Do you want to keep playing later?” And we’ll play a bunch more rounds until late in the night. And it's just like, you've made these these friends just because you were nice to each other. Like, why can't everyone be nice to each other? There's always the positives outweigh the negatives. You know, as much as the negatives weigh on you, I always feel like there's more- personally, I always feel like there's more positives that are there to remember.

Sofia: Yeah. And who are you to let someone else dictate what you enjoy and how you play the game?

Rachel: So this concludes our episode of Across the Table. Thank you so much for listening. For a transcript of this episode, head to the Point of View tab on our website, nhsmessenger.org and follow us on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at NHS point of view for updates and new episodes. We've been your hosts, Rachel,

Grace: Grace,

Sofia: And Sofia and this has been Point of View.

News Flash - Homecoming Titans

Rachel Everett, Orelia Thottam, Grace Yang

Point of View host, Grace Yang, sits down with Northview's 2021 Homecoming Titans and Student Council President and VP to discuss the new title of Homecoming Titans. Listen on Spotify here!

Grace: Hello and welcome to Point of View where we give students a place to listen,, learn and lean in, I'm your host Grace Yang and today I'll be talking about the brand new title of homecoming titans; how the idea formed, and its impact on the school and the student body.

[Crowd Cheering] 

Grace: Every modern American high school student or alumni is familiar with the titles of Homecoming Queen and King. This is typically the selection of two students in the senior class, previously male and female, to represent the school at the homecoming dance. The key words there are male and female. 

Grace: With our growing and changing society, male and female are not the only accepted genders. There are people who identify as transgender, non-binary and even more. Having a homecoming queen and king cannot encompass and accurately represent schools anymore. 

Grace: Returning to school after nearly two years of remote learning, new opportunities are flowing in. It is a perfect time for new traditions and changes within schools. It ties in as well into Northview’s 20th-anniversary celebration. As we celebrate the past, we can create new traditions to replace those that might be outdated or obsolete. 

Grace: In addition to many other things, a more recent change was the new title of Homecoming Titans. Inspiration for the change in title was Northview’s diverse student body. As many of us know, Northview has many different cultures, which are highlighted in different events. Bringing this diversity into the homecoming court was an important factor to President Kelly Jeong and Vice President Jessica Kim. 

Kelly: The reasoning behind this change was that especially because of this rise in inclusivity, in social media, that was where the idea first originated. And because we want to keep this environment, this inclusive environment in Northview, which is what we are known for this diversity and inclusivity. at large, we also wanted to seep this into the student council decision making as well.

Jeong and Kim brought this proposition to student council members during a council meeting. This decision was important for them and had to be decided quickly before the homecoming season. They figured that the term Titan would best encompass everyone at Northview.

Jessica: In one of our meetings, we had voting among the student council members, and they are the representatives of their class, and our entire school. So we wanted them to predict the responses from the students and not just think, with their, with what they just think, but what their whole class would think and represent their voices. So we didn't consult with the other people outside of student council, when making the decision, but I believe that the student council as a whole was representative of the entire school.

Grace: While the overall response to the change was good there were of course varying responses and opinions. After the council meeting, the change was released to the entire school and the response was similar to the student council. The response was a positive one. 

Grace: There was also another change in the homecoming court. In previous years, only seniors were permitted to vote both male and female students onto the court.. All of the other grades were open only to female students. In contrast, this year, the court was open to anyone. Any and all students could be nominated, regardless of gender. . It was simply the people with the most votes.

Grace: This same voting system was used to decide the Homecoming Titans. The two homecoming titans would be the people with the most votes. It wouldn’t matter if it was two people of the same gender or two different genders. 

Grace: It just so happened that this year’s homecoming was a male, TJ James, and a female, Holyn Trautwein. These two winners were selected because they wholeheartedly embody what Northview is and what it represents. 

Grace: James and Trautwein were the inaugural homecoming titans. Both of them were very excited to be crowned homecoming titans and lead in creating a more inclusive space for people who do not identify as male or female. 

Holly: I really like how we're becoming more inclusive as a high school and I know some high schoolers still trying to become more inclusive. So I think we're like leading in that,” James said. They’re not just leading inside Northview but also for other schools in the area. “I think Northview is the only school I've ever heard of so far that's been using like Titans instead of king and queen. Like named for the role, which I think is really cool. Because again, it's like accepting of others and inclusive to everyone. And I think that's a really big step that I'm kind of proud of Northview for taking.  

Grace: This new step for Northview is due to the desire to create a more inclusive space. In addition to the Homecoming title change, Northview has created a new pledge committee in order to increase inclusivity and promote diversity. One of the Northview United leaders, Tania Pope, even selected James to be on the student portion of the committee. 

TJ: I'm actually a member of Northview United, I was recruited by I think Miss Pope was the one who invited me to join the team. So I think it's really important that we do have Northview United here at Northview. Because ours we have a diverse student body. But that doesn't mean that we know how to handle diversity appropriately, especially with like everything going on in like current events, and all that. So I think that Northview, I mean, Northview united is really helping us be able to learn how to take both, like consider cultures as perspectives, and respect them, and maybe like implement them in our lives if they work for certain situations.  

Grace: Even for students outside of Northview united, it provides an example to learn more about diversity and how to handle it appropriately. Trautwein shares how she sees Northview United from a student perspective. 

Holly: I think it's kind of a learning opportunity for everybody to see how to kind of, like, consider others and learn about other diversities. And just like, again, like what he said, with all the current events going on, I think it's really important to have this thing that educates us and helps us learn how to react to certain things.

Grace: While a simple homecoming title change can be impactful, Northview itself is also a place that leaves a lasting effect on everyone. Through its diversity and effort to be inclusive, it creates a strong safe environment. It also leaves an impression on the students. Including studying and hanging out and through events like international night, students are able to learn about varying cultures and learn how to navigate through an ever-diversifying world. 

Holly: I think the level of diversity here has helped me understand like, different kind of backgrounds, like those around me, who are some of my best friends like I never would have really known if I hadn't had Northview to bring us together. So I think really like broaden my knowledge of diversity and like cultures and stuff.

Grace: Despite the change in homecoming tradition, Northview students are embracing Student Council’s efforts to create a safe space for all students and present new opportunities for change. 

Grace: This concludes this episode of News Flash. Thank you so much for listening - For a transcript of this episode, head to the Point of View tab on our website nhsmessenger.org& follow us on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at @nhspointview for updates and new episodes. I'm your host Grace Yang and this has been point of view.

Across the Table - Social Shifts

Jordan Anderson, Rachel Everett, Marcus Kim, Delisa Troupe

In this episode, staffers Delisa, Jordan, Marcus, and Rachel observe the shift in social interactions through the pandemic. Listen on Spotify or Apple Music!

Rachel: Hello, and welcome to Point of View, where we give students a place to listen, learn and lean in. My name is Rachel Everett.

Marcus: My name is Marcus Kim.

Delisa: I'm Delisa Troupe.

Jordan: And I'm Jordan Anderson, and this is Across the Table, where we will discuss different topics that affect our everyday lives.

In today's episode, we'll be covering how our social lives have shifted over the past year. Since March 2020, I can definitely say my social life and friendships have definitely changed. I've lost a few friends, I've made a few friends, and I kind of connected more with people over the past year, I’d say.

Rachel: I feel like my friendships dipped off. I never really hung out with people outside of school back in March. Then once COVID hit, the only person I talked to was my boyfriend at the time.

Marcus: Yeah, a lot of our, at least, going into COVID and our freshman year, all of our friendships were mainly in person, right? Like, our friends were decided by who we would sit by at lunch, who we were assigned to be seated next to in our classes. And depending on if you had classes with people or not, your friendships were like wax and wane. So once we were forced into COVID, right, into quarantine and not being able to see people face to face, it really started to challenge how you approached friendships with different people.

Delisa: I feel like rather than dipping out, most of my friendships just went virtual. It was hard not seeing them face to face, but at the same time, it helped me expand some of my other friendships. Like people who I may not have been super close with, I got close with just because we could talk to each other online all the time.

Jordan: I also have to say, especially with the friends that you only talk to in school, and you don't talk to outside of school, I definitely lost those friendships. Because we only talked in class, we would hang out in the hallway, and eat lunch together. But then when quarantine hit, I just stopped talking to them because I had no other way to talk to them, which was kind of unfortunate, but it just shows how not everyone you think is your friend is your FRIEND friend, if that makes sense.

Delisa For me, it was kind of the opposite. I've kind of found myself getting closer to some people who I consider my school friends. A lot of people who are at school, they only hang out with people who they're super close to or who are in their friend group. And I realized that when people are online, you interact with a bunch more people. Like through Instagram, you can just comment on their posts or DM them or whatever. So it was a lot easier to communicate with people who I wouldn't have hung out with outside of school.

Rachel: I think going off what Jordan said, like the whole thing of, maybe it was a test of who your true friends were. And I remember, and this might be a recent thing, but I remember it was the whole thing of- well, if they don't text you first, then it doesn't matter, or they're not your real friend. And also, I feel like that goes both ways. But it's also a test of- are these people your real hardcore friendships that could last for a while? Or are they just, you're at school, you're my friend, I want to hang out with you and I don't really have anyone else to hang out with.

Marcus: Yeah, I actually think that with these very superficial, just in-person friendly friendships that aren't too deep, I don't think that those are exactly a bad thing. I think that those, you know, superficial friendships actually have a place in our lives, right? Because not every friendship you're going to have is going to be very deep, lifelong and life-changing, you know. We've all had friends that we knew in elementary school that we don't talk to anymore and there's something about that, that helps us grow as people, right. So once quarantine hit and we were forced to truly kind of interact with the people we actually wanted to have deep friendships with, I think a lot of our social skills, right, like learning how to be able to adapt to different sorts of social situations and how to approach different people kind of started to fall off because, you know, we didn't exactly have to talk to, you know, these superficial friends.

Delisa: For me, it was lowkey kind of the opposite. Like during school, around freshman year, I found it really hard to engage in small talk. But I would say, this summer I got a job, and it’s in retail so it helped me interact with people of all different ages, races, etc and just know how to engage in small talk with them. And so I guess the pandemic, like using social media a lot, plus having a job actually helped me know how to interact with people who I wasn't super close with.

Jordan: Yeah, I feel like when it comes to, like you said Marcus, learning how to talk to people, for me, it was way harder to communicate with my friends online because normally we don't really text. I have many friends, like we're really close but we don't talk outside of school that much. Like, we'll hang out once every three months, literally. But during quarantine, when we did not see each other for eight hours, five days a week, for a minute, it was kind of awkward. When I text her I'd be like, “Hey”, and then she just says, “Hey”, and it'll be awkward, because we really don't know what to say, because we're not used to the online communication, back to back, every single day. And that goes for all of my friends too.

Rachel: The element of small talk, I think maybe Delisa was talking about it, was just like- I feel like it's so awkward to go up to someone, online, in an online aspect of just being like, “Hey, how are you?” And I feel like it's so difficult taking that first step, especially online. Maybe in a way, it's just like, I don't want to inconvenience this person, I don't want to bother them with a bunch of notifications. But when you're in person, you're able to pick up on social cues and be like, Oh, is this person busy? Oh, this person isn't interested in talking to me. And so I've kind of developed the thing where I kind of hate small talk. I mean, I get DMS from people that I know and like, this is by no means a call-out, and they’re just like, “Hey, how are you?”, and I'm like, “This is really awkward.” I don't know what to say because it'll just be like, “Hey, how are you?” and then it'll go to, “I'm good, how are you?” “I'm good.” and then the conversation will taper off.

Delisa: There were definitely a lot of times during the pandemic where not much was going on and so it felt like, even if I wanted to talk to my friends, I wouldn't have anything to talk about. Or even if I did text them, they wouldn't reply because everyone has their own thing that's going on.

Marcus: Yeah, so in AP Lang there was this very, very interesting topic we had to write about- “Is small talk relevant in today's age?” And arguments had to be made where, you know, you're kind of concealing your true intentions or you might come off as insincere, right? So oftentimes, you know, in the hall when you pass somebody, you kind of have to make a decision. Do I pretend like I don't see them? Do I try to wave? What if they don't look at me? What if I just look weird waving at someone who isn't waving back? So I think this element of small talk was completely eradicated for me in quarantine. And honestly, in a weird way, it kind of helped with my self-confidence, almost. It kind of taught me that I really don't need to, you know, pretend to be super friendly with my peers, but still maintain my friendships, right?

Jordan: Another thing when talking online, when you're in person with somebody, you can see their expressions. You can see, Oh, they're happy, they're sad or they're annoyed but online, you don't know. You can text someone, “Hey”, they can say “Hey” back, but that “Hey” can be an annoyed “Hey”, or a I really don't feel like talking “Hey”, or it can be like Oh, I'm glad you texted me “Hey”, and you really don't know. And that’s like what you were saying Rachel, how sometimes you don't want to be annoying. Because there's been times where I've texted my friends, we'll be having a conversation, I just feel like- even though they didn’t say they were, I felt like I was being annoying in some way. Like, maybe I should stop texting them and just wait until two weeks later to continue the conversation. But then at the same time, that person could get the wrong message if you stop talking to them, thinking that you're being annoying, but then they'll think, Oh, that I do something wrong? It's really confusing. It's just confusing.

Marcus: Yeah, it's kind of like when you see a message be left on read on Instagram, right? And, you know, they're different types of social medias, right? There's Instagram and Snapchat that, you know, tell you when someone has read something, or when they're typing. And then there's things like i-messages, where you have the option to show if you read something or not. And honestly, I think that the element of, you know, in social media, when it shows your status of Okay, I have seen this message, I think that adds another layer of complexity, right? So it's like, you send someone a message, and you don't see if they read it or not, that kind of gives you a peace of mind. It's kind of weird, but social media, my perspective on social media has definitely changed. Because, you know, without social views, right, without face to face, you kind of have to rely on any resource you get, right. So read recipients are basically the only type of contact anyone could ever have in online situations.

Jordan: There would be times where someone would text me and it would just be them responding to something I said, and I would leave them on read because it's not something I would respond to. But then when someone does that, to me, I’ll be thinking, Man, did I just mess up? Are they mad at me or something? So, like I said before, it's confusing. But you just have to base your knowledge on your own intuition sometimes.

Rachel: That kind of brings into the whole thing of this rising of tone indicators. Are you all familiar with that? Like a little slash? And then there's a letter? I feel like, maybe, because we've gone into quarantine and haven't had these social cues, I feel like that might have been one of the reasons why the tone indicators have increased. Like, with what Marcus was saying, with peers, with social media, and having those read receipts, is also very important.

Delisa: There's been a lot of times where someone's left me on read or ignored my messages and it has made me feel insecure or start to overthink, Oh, are they annoyed with me and stuff like Jordan was saying. But I realized that I also do that to people and usually it's not because I'm annoyed with them or anything like that. It's because, especially through the pandemic, I had a lot going on, I wasn't really focused on every single person I was talking to. Sometimes I would read a message and just forget to respond completely. So being able to see that different perspective that, Oh someone may leave me on read, they might be annoyed at me, but also realizing that- wait, I do the same thing to other people and it's usually not because of that reason. So talking to my friends about it and being like, “Hey, we haven't hung out in a while, what's going on?” And just having that sort of open communication has really helped me stay close to my friends.

Marcus: You know what? That reminds me of something, right? Remember, before quarantine, if someone would DM me and I looked at their profile, and I asked myself, Who is this? So then you kind of have to click on their profile, see their tags, and I'm like, Oh okay, I know who this person is. But after quarantine, right, when we had to, you know, shift to online and you know, we would play games with people, we would meet strangers online, I feel like I've become more comfortable with opening conversations with people I don't know. I feel like I don't need to know the context of who this person is, who their friends are, to be able to make a good conversation, right? You know, I see that we both like the same common interest, okay boom, I can make a good conversation off that. So it's definitely helped me in my, you know, communicative arts, right, I'm able to, you know, have deep conversations- or maybe not so deep, but have conversations with people that you know, I don't really know.

Delisa: And I realized that, over the pandemic, it was extremely hard for me to open up and have deep conversations with my friends, which is another reason that it was really important to have open communication with them because I know mental health struggles and school and all of that could be even more stressful when you're not seeing anyone and you're literally sitting alone in your room on your desk all day just doing work and not having anyone to hang out with or talk to. So yeah, it was really hard for me, I think I've become a lot more reserved, and a lot less willing to talk about myself, just because of the pandemic.

Rachel: I can definitely relate to that. Having that whole thing of trying to communicate with people and maybe you overthink what you're doing and the whole thing of overthinking, Am I annoying this person? I feel like that also applies with being able to communicate with people with your mental health.

Jordan: I also feel like, having to communicate, people might have brought some friendships closer, because I know one of my friends, we talk every three months, for no weird reason. But when quarantine started, we started talking more, especially freshman year, because she was in lots of my classes. And we started talking more, and it actually brought our friendship a lot closer, because now we are a lot closer than we were this time last year or two years ago, three years ago. And I definitely feel like having to talk to people online gives you better ways to communicate, like Marcus was saying, it helped with communicating and learning how to talk to people without being afraid to, because in this time period, we definitely really can talk to people.

Delisa: And one thing I've noticed is that, when I'm introduced to a friend of a friend, usually I won't get super close to them unless we have that one-on-one hangout session. And it's the same thing with online, you're talking or typically talking to someone, just one on one, and that can help you grow closer, when you're not surrounded by other people, you know.

Jordan: Without other people just watching you, it's not easy. Sometimes it can be awkward. Like, one of my friends, he introduced me to one of his friends and we were on a FaceTime call and he left the call and it was just me and his friend. And it was really awkward at first because I had no clue who he was and we were just sitting there in silence the whole entire time. But eventually, we started to get in a smooth flow of a conversation and it became less awkward. And I like how, when the other person leaves, it helps you be more comfortable because it's like having eyes watching you or, you knowing someone's listening. It's awkward because you can't really be yourself in a way.

Marcus: And also for me, when I shifted to talking with people online, you know, we've talked about how we can't see, you know, facial, you know, tone indicators and a lot of difficulties came into fruition after, you know, being online and not seeing people face to face. And you know, as Delisa said, when you get left on read, you get really self-conscious, right? Like, Oh, did I make this person mad? Did I say something wrong? And surprisingly, through quarantine, I think I've actually matured to be able to actually express those feelings, right? So after coming back to school, whenever, you know, I talk with a friend, sometimes I'll just say, “Hey, how's everything? Am I doing anything wrong? Are you happy with our friendship? Is there anything I can do to better myself?” So I think that's helped me mature as a person and not only in my friendships, right? So it definitely helped me, quarantine definitely helped me take that step forward, to be able to, you know, take the first step and try to make things right with a friendship if you think something's off with it.

Delisa: I think the transition from online to school was super impactful for me because people who I got close with over online, suddenly I could see them in person and talk to them. And it was really fun because suddenly I have all of these new friends that I would never have talked to before. So I think coming back to school and seeing everyone in person was much more enjoyable after an entire year of being online.

Rachel: But with what Marcus was saying, with the online friends and the social cues, I definitely found myself appreciating online friendships a lot more. I think I would say that I had more online friendships than in-person friendships. Of course, we weren't actually in person. The fact that I didn't have to worry about overthinking all of these social cues almost made me ignorant, but in a good, ignorant way. I was able to just enjoy the conversation and talk with all of these people and I was able to make plenty of friends because I didn't have to worry about if they'll like me or if they think I'm nice or something. I'm just able to play games with them, we can hang out and stuff.

Jordan: And another thing about online friends that I really like is that when you're meeting online, you don't know them, right? They get to know you from scratch. Because when you're meeting people from, let's say your school, let's say you're meeting a friend of a friend, they most likely know something about you that they heard from someone else, they don't really know you for how you would describe yourself. But online friends, you can start off from scratch, you can build up a relationship with them, and they can build how they perceive you as a person without having that background knowledge of, Oh, she did this so she must be like that. And I definitely feel like online friends, in a way, it's a nice way to start over.

Rachel: Absolutely. You don't have to worry about what someone might have heard or a rumor that might have happened. They'll just know you by whatever you present.

Marcus: Yeah, that's also really difficult since, you know, Northview is kind of a smaller school, right? So everybody kind of knows everybody. So, definitely over quarantine that really helped me, you know, interacting with online people that helped me become more self-confident in myself, right. I remember, before, it was really difficult, you know, people would say bad things about you and you would care a lot about what people said. But then, after quarantine, after having, you know, a lot of time with yourself and a lot of time with people who know nothing about you, I kind of learned to be able to take those things in stride, right? And of course, not everyone's going to believe everything that they hear, and actually, some of my closest friendships have actually started when, you know, they told me “Hey, I heard this thing about you, but I didn't choose to believe it and it sounds like that thing isn't true.” And that, you know, it really showed me over quarantine that, not only I, but a lot of other people have matured as well.

Jordan: Yeah. I just feel like this is one big experience that tests our maturity, how we feel about ourselves, and mainly how we feel about ourselves. Because I know a lot of people, this whole experience of being online, a lot of people kept to themselves, because you were at home and stuff like that. So it really just helps us learn more about ourselves, and just stop caring what other people say. Because at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what other people say because they're just saying things to be saying things 90% of the time. It only matters what you think about yourself, because, at the end of the day, it’s only going to affect you, and not the people you sit next to in class or the people you bump into the hallway.

Rachel: I definitely think that, now that we've come back to school, I mean, I'm not that involved in the drama so I don't know, but I feel like I've gotten the sense that there's less drama, less rumors, everyone seems to be keeping to themselves or their small group because they realize that it just doesn't matter. You can be who you want to be and just kind of chillax. I definitely think coming back to school has been a good opportunity to understand all of these things and see how quarantine has really changed you.

Marcus: You know, it's an interesting thing, right? You know, time seemed to go by so much slower when we were younger but you know, as we got to middle school, the year started to go by quicker. So I think quarantine really gave us a good sense that, hey, a lot can happen in a year and you can change a lot as a person- not only yourself, your maturity, your social situations, a lot of things can change in a year, right? So after seeing, you know, a whole gap of a year, seeing those people you remember from freshman year, and now in junior year, at least for me, it's really cool. You know, I didn't give people enough credit, right, you know, people have matured, people have changed and I think that's probably the best thing that's changed to help my social life, right?

Jordan: Another thing, when we came back to school, it was really fun to see how people changed. When you know someone from seventh grade, how they acted then, and now you see them now, you’re just like, Whoa, that's crazy. And even though people have said that to me personally, I don't think I've changed that much. But people have definitely said, “Oh, Jordan, you've changed a little, like you're not the same not in a negative way but in a positive way. You're not the same person you used to be a year ago.” And like you said Marcus, it shows us how much things can change in a short period of time. It’s like a reality check to be honest.

Delisa: I feel like for most people, the pandemic was an opportunity to explore who we are separate from our friends and everyone else around us. So it really gave me the opportunity to, like Marcus said, and like you said, grow as a person.

Rachel: I think this whole experience of quarantine, not involving COVID just like the social aspect of it, is really going to affect us. I mean, maybe in a good way, maybe in a bad way, but it's definitely changed us in a way.

Marcus: Yeah. And who's to say, you know, it might seem weird to say but who says bad change is a bad thing, right? Maybe losing some friends might, you know, actually turn out for the good and you look at it in a future lens, right?

But yeah, thank you so much for listening. I’m Marcus.

Rachel: I'm Rachel.

Jordan: I'm Jordan.

Delisa: I'm Delisa

Marcus: And this was Point of View. Thank you for watching.