Across the Table - Girls in Gaming

Rachel Everett, Sofia Mang, Grace Yang

In this episode, staffers Grace, Rachel, and Sofia discuss issues girls face in the gaming community and how they have overcome them. Listen here on Spotify!

Rachel: Hello, and welcome to Point of View, where we give students a place to listen, learn and lean in. We’re your hosts, Rachel,

Grace: Grace,

Sofia: And Sofia. And today we'll be discussing the gaming community's attitude towards females and how it has affected us personally. So a lot of people know that girls are generally not well received in gaming lobbies. I know for me specifically, there's been multiple times where a lot of guys have been really misogynistic towards me, especially if they found out that I'm a girl if I start talking, and it's not even just misogynistic, they're sometimes sexual towards me. And it just makes gaming overall, something that should be enjoyed turned into something that is just enjoyable, you know?

Grace: Yeah, I feel like, well to be fair, I don't really talk in team chat a lot. Because I've seen how people react to girls, so I'm like, I don't want to have that. So I just like, I don't communicate with my teammates, but sometimes that can be bad if you have call-outs and you can't really communicate with them. But sometimes it's scary because like, me personally, I'm just scared that when they hear my voice, they’ll jump on it, and say something, and I just, I don't do well receiving criticism, or getting bashed, so I just don't talk.

Rachel: I'm one of those people that tries to see the positive in everyone. So no matter what, I'll just always talk in lobbies. Like, I'm not like, I'm always kind of afraid of what might happen. But I don't really play longer games so I play quick, easy games like Spike Rushes. So I'm not too afraid of talking and doing call-outs. But I have experienced like, in those longer games, it's more of like, you feel you run into more of a chance of being insulted or being sexualized or misogynistic towards. So it's one of those things that's like, sometimes you want to talk and sometimes you don't.

Grace: I mean, a lot of times, I feel like it can be fun sometimes. Because if you get lucky enough to have a team that's either fun or doesn't really care that you're a girl, sometimes they don't say anything, or they'll go along with it. And they're like, I'll buy you skins or I'll buy you guns or something. And then like, sometimes they're more welcoming, which is still pretty nice. It's nice to see that people have sort of opened up more to girls playing these games with them and not really jumping to insult them.

Sofia: Usually, what I do is, whenever I'm playing a game, like Rachel was saying, in the longer games you're more afraid of getting that kind of backlash because it's more serious and it's taken more seriously, especially by the other players. So I really only talk if I'm doing well. And then sometimes, after I talk, then the whole team is very welcoming like you said, and it's a good experience. Because then you can actually have fun because it's way more fun when you can actually talk to your team and have fun with them. But then, sometimes if you talk, then you do get backlash. Like, one time I was playing this one game, and I was doing really well. We were winning. And all of a sudden I talked and for some reason, two of my teammates, they were guys, and they just did not like the fact that I was a girl and they completely left the game. So we ended up losing because they weren't playing anymore. And it's just like that kind of that hesitant moment where you have to decide if you want to speak, if you want to reveal that your girl and it's gonna change the whole outcome of the game. Why is that a thing? You know? Why does that have to happen?

Grace: Yea that’s so stupid that you have to be scared to talk. But I feel like a lot of the backlash is just for no reason. It's simply because of your gender. Or like, they'll make assumptions that like, “Oh, you're bad at this game because you're a girl”. I really hate that because it just sort of puts you down and it slowly chips away at your self esteem. Even if you're like, “Oh, they're just random, I don't care.” Like even some people in person, if they know I play games, they’ll assume that I'm bad just because I'm a girl or they'll make other assumptions.

Rachel: And Grace, you’re on the ESports team, aren't you?

Grace: Yes.

Rachel: See, that's more proving the fact that just because you're a girl doesn't mean you're bad. Like, we have Grace on the eSports team and that's really amazing and really awesome. But it is sad that it's almost expected that you're bad when you play as a girl. Like, when I reveal that I'm a girl sometimes, I get self conscious of every single move I make, like I beat myself up over every decision- if it's good or bad if I don't hit a shot, or if I just completely spray because I do that a lot. I just hold down the trigger button. But it’s just sad.

Sofia: Yea, there's so many stereotypes that just are enforced on “gamer girls” I guess. Like there's so many different agents in different games. Like obviously, in every different game there's different roles like DPS or damage and then support and for girls, they're always expected to play support, they're always expected to kind of be the person who doesn't really do much. They just have to do whatever people tell them to. And like for me, Sage in Valorant, she's like a healer. And in league, there's also healers. But everyone always expects you to play that healer, to be that person who just does whatever the male wants, I guess. And I don't really know why these stereotypes have come into gaming in the first place because gaming should be a unisex experience, it should be a universal kind of thing that everyone can do. And it sucks that gender was kind of roped into it.

Rachel: Going off of your Sage comment, when I was first learning how to play Valorant, I certainly played Sage a lot more, because she's kind of like, she's a good starter character. But I feel like a lot of girls do feed into the whole thing of Sage- and this is not to insult you Sofia. But just in general, it's like a lot of girls do kind of go into playing Sage more often and doing those support roles. And while there are of course, many people who go out of support roles, like I play Viper, and she's a controller. It's like maybe certain girls are scared to venture out of those support roles. And they really need to try and adventure into other roles and other categories.

Grace: I think the reason why a lot of girls pick the support role, I think it's just because we’re new to the game. Because like, when I was picking up League, I knew it was a really hard game and that there's a really steep learning curve. I picked the support role, because I knew you have another person with you in lane. So if you lose lane, it's not completely your fault. And also, I just knew it was less mechanically challenging. And because I didn't have any experience, like with a keyboard and mouse before, I just picked a role that I thought would help me get into the game easier. And I think that's true for a lot of girls because, like only recently have games been more marketed towards girls or have they been more open to girls. Because before, when we were all in like elementary school and middle school, games were only for guys which is why a lot of girls don't have experience. And I think that's why sometimes we'll choose more supporting roles. And I think even then the supporting roles, like just because everybody says “Oh they’re easy” and stuff. There's a lot of aspects of them that are important. Like for example in Valorant if you're like… what's it called? The guy who like runs in?

Sofia: Duelist?

Grace: Oh yeah is that like a duelist? I feel like a duelist you can just run in and get headshots like no brain anything. But if you're a controller or a Sage, you have to think about flanks and other stuff like that. It’s the same thing in league. Like, if you’re a support you have to think about more macro plays and other stuff that's going on in the game, not just mechanically, but what is going on IN your lane.

Sofia: Yeah, I like what you said about playing support characters when you're new, especially because you felt like if you did something or if your lane lost, it wouldn't be your fault. And I think that's something that also plays into Valorant and the reason why Valorant players also choose the support characters, because it's all about not getting blamed. Because especially being a girl, obviously if you're a bad player, in general, no matter your gender, you're gonna get blamed for losing the game. But for a girl, you don't really like to have that blame, especially if you're already not confident enough in the way that you play. Like sometimes I'm not confident enough in my own skills, no matter how long have played, no matter all the things I've done, I'm just not confident. And so I play these support characters because I don't want to be blamed for the game. If I did play a duelist like you said, and I didn't get those kills and I didn't win the game for my team, then I would be blamed and it would be even worse so because I'm a girl. I feel like the whole blame thing is just so scary for girls in the game. Rachel: I feel like, going off a very, very heavy stereotype, guys kind of go in running and gunning and they fit more of the duelist. Because like you said, duelists can just completely run and get headshots like nobody's business, but they're not focusing on strategy per se. But with sentinels and support characters like Sage, you do have to worry about flank and it's more strategical. And that's like, I feel like girls are like, how do I say this? Girls more so think about the strategies rather than the actual gunplay and aiming and shooting.

Grace: I mean, these stereotypes, I think it's gotten so bad that it affects every single girl because it's always just because of their gender. So like, even to the point where it sort of invalidates you and it's like, “Oh, you're not good at this game” or “You can't play real games”, because there's that idea that real games are FPS or stuff like that. And they think that girls can only play Stardew Valley or Animal Crossing and like I love those games, of course. But one, it invalidates the types of games that are more peaceful and sandbox, and two it invalidate girls who want to play games in general.

Sofia: Yeah, like these pro girl gamers or these pro streamers, there's a lot of streamers that are actually really good at the game. They're really good at Valorant. But just because they did gain popularity, because they were conventionally attractive, it invalidates it for all the men, they're just like, “Oh, you're not good at this game. You're just pretty. That's why you have followers. You're not good at this game.” Like Katsumi, she's on Cloud Nine White, which is the pro Valorant team for women and that team is actually really good. They're one of the best women's teams, I'm pretty sure but she's less validated just because she's very soft spoken, she's very, just cute, you know? And so it makes people think she doesn’t hold as much value as she does, because she's a very good player and people just completely forget about that. Because, “Oh, she's pretty. That's why she has a platform. That’s why she has etc.”

Rachel: Going off of the whole pro gaming thing, I feel like when you're playing as a woman, as a girl, I know that what I said earlier, I scrutinize every single play I make. And I kind of let those really bad comments get to me. And it's like, maybe I shouldn't really be playing these games, maybe I just don't have the right skill set. Because, I've always watched my older brothers play video games, and I've always wanted to do these things. But I've never seemed to pick up on it. Like I've never played Comp or like the one time that I played I was playing with Irons. Like, I'm not very good at the game but it's still really fun. And having those invalidating experiences of going, “Oh, you're really bad at this. Why are you playing this? Go back to the kitchen.” which is what I've been told, when I just want to have fun and play the game. I don't necessarily want to go play simple sandbox games, like Stardew like you said, I want something action packed and exciting. Sofia: Yeah, like, I remember, I first got into gaming around quarantine because obviously, we had nothing to do at home. And I remember I specifically bought a whole PC, a whole setup just so I could play with my friends. And it was really fun for me because I first started the game and they would just always play with me because it's fun to play with someone who's new, it's fun to teach them. But then all of a sudden, as soon as I started playing more and more, and I got more people to play with me, those same people that I bought the PC for, that I played games with originally, they were the ones calling me boosted, they're the ones saying “Why are you playing this game? This is not for you.” Those same people that inspired me to play started all of a sudden degrading me. And that was really tough on me because it felt like “Why did I even buy this, I don't even enjoy myself anymore because people who made me enjoy it are now making me feel like I shouldn't be doing this.” And I invalidate myself because I am a higher rank than average in Valorant. And it's because I did play with my friends who are like very, very high and they helped me get to that rank, but it wasn't about just getting to that rank, it was just to have fun with them. And the fact that people will always say a girl never deserves a rank, a girl doesn't really deserve it so the girl has to literally prove themselves to that person specifically that they can do what they have portrayed that they can do. It's just hard to deal with.

Grace: And so I think it's a lot more uplifting to play with other girls because if you find, I know in Valorant, but if you find another girl in lobby it's sort of a relief that like “Oh, I have a comrade! Thank you.”

Rachel: Literally, like I've always asked “Oh are there any girls here” or I've been asked that and the moment you find out you just have an instant connection with that kind of person and I'm just like “Let's go!”

Sofia: Yeah like you wouldn't even have to talk to them or know them. You could just be like, “Are you a girl?” “I'm a girl” “Oh my god we're best friends” “I love you” and stuff like that and that's kind of a way that girls have made it better for themselves. We've made it a community that's easier for us because instead of just sitting there and being like “Wow, I wish this was better”, we actually made it better. And now that a lot of girls are getting into these games, a lot of people are becoming similar in that way and it's so much easier to join a lobby because sometimes there most likely will be another girl and then that makes it so much easier on us to play the game and it makes it easier on everyone because we support each other.

Grace: Yeah, I think that reaching out in lobby is really nice because even though there's these stupid toxic stereotypes or whatever, you can sort of get through that by making friends. And you can sort of bond over that experience because you know that you've both been flamed just for being a girl so you're not gonna do anything like that to them of course.

Rachel: If y'all know the stereotypes of COD lobbies where it's like a bunch of guys and they're insulting each other and yelling at each other. But when you're in lobbies with girls, I feel like we moreso uplift each other, rather than like, “Oh, that was a really bad shot, what the heck?” You're just like, “Oh, let's go. That was amazing.”

Sofia: Yeah, and I really like, just what we've done as a community to make it easier on us. Even the stereotypes that have been put on us with the certain agents that we've played like, yes, I do main Sage, I play her a lot. But it's not just because of the fact that she's a support role or she's easy to play, cuz everyone just says, “Oh, you play Sage, because you're a girl, she's easy to play.” It's more like, I've been taking that and, there’s this whole thing about battle Sages where because Sage can heal herself as well as other people, so she can also take initiative and kind of control the game in her own way. And I've been able to do that too. And I like how everyone's been able to just take these stereotypes and just turn it into something that works for them and it just empowers us, instead of bringing us down.

Grace: I mean, to be fair to the guys, because I don't want to bash them too much. There are some of them who are kind of nice, or maybe it's just because they're simping for a girl. Because I know once I was in a league lobby, and I was trying a new role for the first time and so I was getting flamed by the enemy, right? And they're like, “Wow you suck at this.” And I was like, “Gosh, thank you.” But then, I think one of them asked if we had any girls on our team and I was not gonna say that I was a girl. Like, I'm not gonna put myself out there. But then one of my friends typed “Oh, yeah, this person is a girl.” And then they were like, “Oh, I see.” And they were like, “Oh, yeah, that character that you're playing is actually eally hard to get into. So you'll get there eventually. Don't worry about it.” They actually got nicer to me, after they found out I was a girl which was really, really unexpected, but kind of nice.

Sofia: Yeah, I feel like we should give the people some credit, because it's not like every single lobby is full of horrible people. Like sometimes I'll be in a lobby and it's always like 50/50. But the times that there are just a bunch of positive guys who don't really care that I'm a girl or they don’t care about the fact that I'm a girl will affect the way I play. It's just, they see how I play firsthand and that's how they judge me. And so it's just really nice because even through all these kind of bad experiences and situations, there's always good things can come out of it. There's always good experiences that we sometimes disregard by letting the negative ones overpower it. And so we just have to remember that in a way too.

Rachel: I've met a few people just through having these amazing experiences with them in spike crushes. And I'm like, “Do you want to keep playing later?” And we’ll play a bunch more rounds until late in the night. And it's just like, you've made these these friends just because you were nice to each other. Like, why can't everyone be nice to each other? There's always the positives outweigh the negatives. You know, as much as the negatives weigh on you, I always feel like there's more- personally, I always feel like there's more positives that are there to remember.

Sofia: Yeah. And who are you to let someone else dictate what you enjoy and how you play the game?

Rachel: So this concludes our episode of Across the Table. Thank you so much for listening. For a transcript of this episode, head to the Point of View tab on our website, nhsmessenger.org and follow us on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at NHS point of view for updates and new episodes. We've been your hosts, Rachel,

Grace: Grace,

Sofia: And Sofia and this has been Point of View.

Across the Table - Social Shifts

Jordan Anderson, Rachel Everett, Marcus Kim, Delisa Troupe

In this episode, staffers Delisa, Jordan, Marcus, and Rachel observe the shift in social interactions through the pandemic. Listen on Spotify or Apple Music!

Rachel: Hello, and welcome to Point of View, where we give students a place to listen, learn and lean in. My name is Rachel Everett.

Marcus: My name is Marcus Kim.

Delisa: I'm Delisa Troupe.

Jordan: And I'm Jordan Anderson, and this is Across the Table, where we will discuss different topics that affect our everyday lives.

In today's episode, we'll be covering how our social lives have shifted over the past year. Since March 2020, I can definitely say my social life and friendships have definitely changed. I've lost a few friends, I've made a few friends, and I kind of connected more with people over the past year, I’d say.

Rachel: I feel like my friendships dipped off. I never really hung out with people outside of school back in March. Then once COVID hit, the only person I talked to was my boyfriend at the time.

Marcus: Yeah, a lot of our, at least, going into COVID and our freshman year, all of our friendships were mainly in person, right? Like, our friends were decided by who we would sit by at lunch, who we were assigned to be seated next to in our classes. And depending on if you had classes with people or not, your friendships were like wax and wane. So once we were forced into COVID, right, into quarantine and not being able to see people face to face, it really started to challenge how you approached friendships with different people.

Delisa: I feel like rather than dipping out, most of my friendships just went virtual. It was hard not seeing them face to face, but at the same time, it helped me expand some of my other friendships. Like people who I may not have been super close with, I got close with just because we could talk to each other online all the time.

Jordan: I also have to say, especially with the friends that you only talk to in school, and you don't talk to outside of school, I definitely lost those friendships. Because we only talked in class, we would hang out in the hallway, and eat lunch together. But then when quarantine hit, I just stopped talking to them because I had no other way to talk to them, which was kind of unfortunate, but it just shows how not everyone you think is your friend is your FRIEND friend, if that makes sense.

Delisa For me, it was kind of the opposite. I've kind of found myself getting closer to some people who I consider my school friends. A lot of people who are at school, they only hang out with people who they're super close to or who are in their friend group. And I realized that when people are online, you interact with a bunch more people. Like through Instagram, you can just comment on their posts or DM them or whatever. So it was a lot easier to communicate with people who I wouldn't have hung out with outside of school.

Rachel: I think going off what Jordan said, like the whole thing of, maybe it was a test of who your true friends were. And I remember, and this might be a recent thing, but I remember it was the whole thing of- well, if they don't text you first, then it doesn't matter, or they're not your real friend. And also, I feel like that goes both ways. But it's also a test of- are these people your real hardcore friendships that could last for a while? Or are they just, you're at school, you're my friend, I want to hang out with you and I don't really have anyone else to hang out with.

Marcus: Yeah, I actually think that with these very superficial, just in-person friendly friendships that aren't too deep, I don't think that those are exactly a bad thing. I think that those, you know, superficial friendships actually have a place in our lives, right? Because not every friendship you're going to have is going to be very deep, lifelong and life-changing, you know. We've all had friends that we knew in elementary school that we don't talk to anymore and there's something about that, that helps us grow as people, right. So once quarantine hit and we were forced to truly kind of interact with the people we actually wanted to have deep friendships with, I think a lot of our social skills, right, like learning how to be able to adapt to different sorts of social situations and how to approach different people kind of started to fall off because, you know, we didn't exactly have to talk to, you know, these superficial friends.

Delisa: For me, it was lowkey kind of the opposite. Like during school, around freshman year, I found it really hard to engage in small talk. But I would say, this summer I got a job, and it’s in retail so it helped me interact with people of all different ages, races, etc and just know how to engage in small talk with them. And so I guess the pandemic, like using social media a lot, plus having a job actually helped me know how to interact with people who I wasn't super close with.

Jordan: Yeah, I feel like when it comes to, like you said Marcus, learning how to talk to people, for me, it was way harder to communicate with my friends online because normally we don't really text. I have many friends, like we're really close but we don't talk outside of school that much. Like, we'll hang out once every three months, literally. But during quarantine, when we did not see each other for eight hours, five days a week, for a minute, it was kind of awkward. When I text her I'd be like, “Hey”, and then she just says, “Hey”, and it'll be awkward, because we really don't know what to say, because we're not used to the online communication, back to back, every single day. And that goes for all of my friends too.

Rachel: The element of small talk, I think maybe Delisa was talking about it, was just like- I feel like it's so awkward to go up to someone, online, in an online aspect of just being like, “Hey, how are you?” And I feel like it's so difficult taking that first step, especially online. Maybe in a way, it's just like, I don't want to inconvenience this person, I don't want to bother them with a bunch of notifications. But when you're in person, you're able to pick up on social cues and be like, Oh, is this person busy? Oh, this person isn't interested in talking to me. And so I've kind of developed the thing where I kind of hate small talk. I mean, I get DMS from people that I know and like, this is by no means a call-out, and they’re just like, “Hey, how are you?”, and I'm like, “This is really awkward.” I don't know what to say because it'll just be like, “Hey, how are you?” and then it'll go to, “I'm good, how are you?” “I'm good.” and then the conversation will taper off.

Delisa: There were definitely a lot of times during the pandemic where not much was going on and so it felt like, even if I wanted to talk to my friends, I wouldn't have anything to talk about. Or even if I did text them, they wouldn't reply because everyone has their own thing that's going on.

Marcus: Yeah, so in AP Lang there was this very, very interesting topic we had to write about- “Is small talk relevant in today's age?” And arguments had to be made where, you know, you're kind of concealing your true intentions or you might come off as insincere, right? So oftentimes, you know, in the hall when you pass somebody, you kind of have to make a decision. Do I pretend like I don't see them? Do I try to wave? What if they don't look at me? What if I just look weird waving at someone who isn't waving back? So I think this element of small talk was completely eradicated for me in quarantine. And honestly, in a weird way, it kind of helped with my self-confidence, almost. It kind of taught me that I really don't need to, you know, pretend to be super friendly with my peers, but still maintain my friendships, right?

Jordan: Another thing when talking online, when you're in person with somebody, you can see their expressions. You can see, Oh, they're happy, they're sad or they're annoyed but online, you don't know. You can text someone, “Hey”, they can say “Hey” back, but that “Hey” can be an annoyed “Hey”, or a I really don't feel like talking “Hey”, or it can be like Oh, I'm glad you texted me “Hey”, and you really don't know. And that’s like what you were saying Rachel, how sometimes you don't want to be annoying. Because there's been times where I've texted my friends, we'll be having a conversation, I just feel like- even though they didn’t say they were, I felt like I was being annoying in some way. Like, maybe I should stop texting them and just wait until two weeks later to continue the conversation. But then at the same time, that person could get the wrong message if you stop talking to them, thinking that you're being annoying, but then they'll think, Oh, that I do something wrong? It's really confusing. It's just confusing.

Marcus: Yeah, it's kind of like when you see a message be left on read on Instagram, right? And, you know, they're different types of social medias, right? There's Instagram and Snapchat that, you know, tell you when someone has read something, or when they're typing. And then there's things like i-messages, where you have the option to show if you read something or not. And honestly, I think that the element of, you know, in social media, when it shows your status of Okay, I have seen this message, I think that adds another layer of complexity, right? So it's like, you send someone a message, and you don't see if they read it or not, that kind of gives you a peace of mind. It's kind of weird, but social media, my perspective on social media has definitely changed. Because, you know, without social views, right, without face to face, you kind of have to rely on any resource you get, right. So read recipients are basically the only type of contact anyone could ever have in online situations.

Jordan: There would be times where someone would text me and it would just be them responding to something I said, and I would leave them on read because it's not something I would respond to. But then when someone does that, to me, I’ll be thinking, Man, did I just mess up? Are they mad at me or something? So, like I said before, it's confusing. But you just have to base your knowledge on your own intuition sometimes.

Rachel: That kind of brings into the whole thing of this rising of tone indicators. Are you all familiar with that? Like a little slash? And then there's a letter? I feel like, maybe, because we've gone into quarantine and haven't had these social cues, I feel like that might have been one of the reasons why the tone indicators have increased. Like, with what Marcus was saying, with peers, with social media, and having those read receipts, is also very important.

Delisa: There's been a lot of times where someone's left me on read or ignored my messages and it has made me feel insecure or start to overthink, Oh, are they annoyed with me and stuff like Jordan was saying. But I realized that I also do that to people and usually it's not because I'm annoyed with them or anything like that. It's because, especially through the pandemic, I had a lot going on, I wasn't really focused on every single person I was talking to. Sometimes I would read a message and just forget to respond completely. So being able to see that different perspective that, Oh someone may leave me on read, they might be annoyed at me, but also realizing that- wait, I do the same thing to other people and it's usually not because of that reason. So talking to my friends about it and being like, “Hey, we haven't hung out in a while, what's going on?” And just having that sort of open communication has really helped me stay close to my friends.

Marcus: You know what? That reminds me of something, right? Remember, before quarantine, if someone would DM me and I looked at their profile, and I asked myself, Who is this? So then you kind of have to click on their profile, see their tags, and I'm like, Oh okay, I know who this person is. But after quarantine, right, when we had to, you know, shift to online and you know, we would play games with people, we would meet strangers online, I feel like I've become more comfortable with opening conversations with people I don't know. I feel like I don't need to know the context of who this person is, who their friends are, to be able to make a good conversation, right? You know, I see that we both like the same common interest, okay boom, I can make a good conversation off that. So it's definitely helped me in my, you know, communicative arts, right, I'm able to, you know, have deep conversations- or maybe not so deep, but have conversations with people that you know, I don't really know.

Delisa: And I realized that, over the pandemic, it was extremely hard for me to open up and have deep conversations with my friends, which is another reason that it was really important to have open communication with them because I know mental health struggles and school and all of that could be even more stressful when you're not seeing anyone and you're literally sitting alone in your room on your desk all day just doing work and not having anyone to hang out with or talk to. So yeah, it was really hard for me, I think I've become a lot more reserved, and a lot less willing to talk about myself, just because of the pandemic.

Rachel: I can definitely relate to that. Having that whole thing of trying to communicate with people and maybe you overthink what you're doing and the whole thing of overthinking, Am I annoying this person? I feel like that also applies with being able to communicate with people with your mental health.

Jordan: I also feel like, having to communicate, people might have brought some friendships closer, because I know one of my friends, we talk every three months, for no weird reason. But when quarantine started, we started talking more, especially freshman year, because she was in lots of my classes. And we started talking more, and it actually brought our friendship a lot closer, because now we are a lot closer than we were this time last year or two years ago, three years ago. And I definitely feel like having to talk to people online gives you better ways to communicate, like Marcus was saying, it helped with communicating and learning how to talk to people without being afraid to, because in this time period, we definitely really can talk to people.

Delisa: And one thing I've noticed is that, when I'm introduced to a friend of a friend, usually I won't get super close to them unless we have that one-on-one hangout session. And it's the same thing with online, you're talking or typically talking to someone, just one on one, and that can help you grow closer, when you're not surrounded by other people, you know.

Jordan: Without other people just watching you, it's not easy. Sometimes it can be awkward. Like, one of my friends, he introduced me to one of his friends and we were on a FaceTime call and he left the call and it was just me and his friend. And it was really awkward at first because I had no clue who he was and we were just sitting there in silence the whole entire time. But eventually, we started to get in a smooth flow of a conversation and it became less awkward. And I like how, when the other person leaves, it helps you be more comfortable because it's like having eyes watching you or, you knowing someone's listening. It's awkward because you can't really be yourself in a way.

Marcus: And also for me, when I shifted to talking with people online, you know, we've talked about how we can't see, you know, facial, you know, tone indicators and a lot of difficulties came into fruition after, you know, being online and not seeing people face to face. And you know, as Delisa said, when you get left on read, you get really self-conscious, right? Like, Oh, did I make this person mad? Did I say something wrong? And surprisingly, through quarantine, I think I've actually matured to be able to actually express those feelings, right? So after coming back to school, whenever, you know, I talk with a friend, sometimes I'll just say, “Hey, how's everything? Am I doing anything wrong? Are you happy with our friendship? Is there anything I can do to better myself?” So I think that's helped me mature as a person and not only in my friendships, right? So it definitely helped me, quarantine definitely helped me take that step forward, to be able to, you know, take the first step and try to make things right with a friendship if you think something's off with it.

Delisa: I think the transition from online to school was super impactful for me because people who I got close with over online, suddenly I could see them in person and talk to them. And it was really fun because suddenly I have all of these new friends that I would never have talked to before. So I think coming back to school and seeing everyone in person was much more enjoyable after an entire year of being online.

Rachel: But with what Marcus was saying, with the online friends and the social cues, I definitely found myself appreciating online friendships a lot more. I think I would say that I had more online friendships than in-person friendships. Of course, we weren't actually in person. The fact that I didn't have to worry about overthinking all of these social cues almost made me ignorant, but in a good, ignorant way. I was able to just enjoy the conversation and talk with all of these people and I was able to make plenty of friends because I didn't have to worry about if they'll like me or if they think I'm nice or something. I'm just able to play games with them, we can hang out and stuff.

Jordan: And another thing about online friends that I really like is that when you're meeting online, you don't know them, right? They get to know you from scratch. Because when you're meeting people from, let's say your school, let's say you're meeting a friend of a friend, they most likely know something about you that they heard from someone else, they don't really know you for how you would describe yourself. But online friends, you can start off from scratch, you can build up a relationship with them, and they can build how they perceive you as a person without having that background knowledge of, Oh, she did this so she must be like that. And I definitely feel like online friends, in a way, it's a nice way to start over.

Rachel: Absolutely. You don't have to worry about what someone might have heard or a rumor that might have happened. They'll just know you by whatever you present.

Marcus: Yeah, that's also really difficult since, you know, Northview is kind of a smaller school, right? So everybody kind of knows everybody. So, definitely over quarantine that really helped me, you know, interacting with online people that helped me become more self-confident in myself, right. I remember, before, it was really difficult, you know, people would say bad things about you and you would care a lot about what people said. But then, after quarantine, after having, you know, a lot of time with yourself and a lot of time with people who know nothing about you, I kind of learned to be able to take those things in stride, right? And of course, not everyone's going to believe everything that they hear, and actually, some of my closest friendships have actually started when, you know, they told me “Hey, I heard this thing about you, but I didn't choose to believe it and it sounds like that thing isn't true.” And that, you know, it really showed me over quarantine that, not only I, but a lot of other people have matured as well.

Jordan: Yeah. I just feel like this is one big experience that tests our maturity, how we feel about ourselves, and mainly how we feel about ourselves. Because I know a lot of people, this whole experience of being online, a lot of people kept to themselves, because you were at home and stuff like that. So it really just helps us learn more about ourselves, and just stop caring what other people say. Because at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what other people say because they're just saying things to be saying things 90% of the time. It only matters what you think about yourself, because, at the end of the day, it’s only going to affect you, and not the people you sit next to in class or the people you bump into the hallway.

Rachel: I definitely think that, now that we've come back to school, I mean, I'm not that involved in the drama so I don't know, but I feel like I've gotten the sense that there's less drama, less rumors, everyone seems to be keeping to themselves or their small group because they realize that it just doesn't matter. You can be who you want to be and just kind of chillax. I definitely think coming back to school has been a good opportunity to understand all of these things and see how quarantine has really changed you.

Marcus: You know, it's an interesting thing, right? You know, time seemed to go by so much slower when we were younger but you know, as we got to middle school, the year started to go by quicker. So I think quarantine really gave us a good sense that, hey, a lot can happen in a year and you can change a lot as a person- not only yourself, your maturity, your social situations, a lot of things can change in a year, right? So after seeing, you know, a whole gap of a year, seeing those people you remember from freshman year, and now in junior year, at least for me, it's really cool. You know, I didn't give people enough credit, right, you know, people have matured, people have changed and I think that's probably the best thing that's changed to help my social life, right?

Jordan: Another thing, when we came back to school, it was really fun to see how people changed. When you know someone from seventh grade, how they acted then, and now you see them now, you’re just like, Whoa, that's crazy. And even though people have said that to me personally, I don't think I've changed that much. But people have definitely said, “Oh, Jordan, you've changed a little, like you're not the same not in a negative way but in a positive way. You're not the same person you used to be a year ago.” And like you said Marcus, it shows us how much things can change in a short period of time. It’s like a reality check to be honest.

Delisa: I feel like for most people, the pandemic was an opportunity to explore who we are separate from our friends and everyone else around us. So it really gave me the opportunity to, like Marcus said, and like you said, grow as a person.

Rachel: I think this whole experience of quarantine, not involving COVID just like the social aspect of it, is really going to affect us. I mean, maybe in a good way, maybe in a bad way, but it's definitely changed us in a way.

Marcus: Yeah. And who's to say, you know, it might seem weird to say but who says bad change is a bad thing, right? Maybe losing some friends might, you know, actually turn out for the good and you look at it in a future lens, right?

But yeah, thank you so much for listening. I’m Marcus.

Rachel: I'm Rachel.

Jordan: I'm Jordan.

Delisa: I'm Delisa

Marcus: And this was Point of View. Thank you for watching.