Rachel Everett, Sofia Mang, Grace Yang

In this episode, staffers Grace, Rachel, and Sofia discuss issues girls face in the gaming community and how they have overcome them. Listen here on Spotify!

Rachel: Hello, and welcome to Point of View, where we give students a place to listen, learn and lean in. We’re your hosts, Rachel,

Grace: Grace,

Sofia: And Sofia. And today we'll be discussing the gaming community's attitude towards females and how it has affected us personally. So a lot of people know that girls are generally not well received in gaming lobbies. I know for me specifically, there's been multiple times where a lot of guys have been really misogynistic towards me, especially if they found out that I'm a girl if I start talking, and it's not even just misogynistic, they're sometimes sexual towards me. And it just makes gaming overall, something that should be enjoyed turned into something that is just enjoyable, you know?

Grace: Yeah, I feel like, well to be fair, I don't really talk in team chat a lot. Because I've seen how people react to girls, so I'm like, I don't want to have that. So I just like, I don't communicate with my teammates, but sometimes that can be bad if you have call-outs and you can't really communicate with them. But sometimes it's scary because like, me personally, I'm just scared that when they hear my voice, they’ll jump on it, and say something, and I just, I don't do well receiving criticism, or getting bashed, so I just don't talk.

Rachel: I'm one of those people that tries to see the positive in everyone. So no matter what, I'll just always talk in lobbies. Like, I'm not like, I'm always kind of afraid of what might happen. But I don't really play longer games so I play quick, easy games like Spike Rushes. So I'm not too afraid of talking and doing call-outs. But I have experienced like, in those longer games, it's more of like, you feel you run into more of a chance of being insulted or being sexualized or misogynistic towards. So it's one of those things that's like, sometimes you want to talk and sometimes you don't.

Grace: I mean, a lot of times, I feel like it can be fun sometimes. Because if you get lucky enough to have a team that's either fun or doesn't really care that you're a girl, sometimes they don't say anything, or they'll go along with it. And they're like, I'll buy you skins or I'll buy you guns or something. And then like, sometimes they're more welcoming, which is still pretty nice. It's nice to see that people have sort of opened up more to girls playing these games with them and not really jumping to insult them.

Sofia: Usually, what I do is, whenever I'm playing a game, like Rachel was saying, in the longer games you're more afraid of getting that kind of backlash because it's more serious and it's taken more seriously, especially by the other players. So I really only talk if I'm doing well. And then sometimes, after I talk, then the whole team is very welcoming like you said, and it's a good experience. Because then you can actually have fun because it's way more fun when you can actually talk to your team and have fun with them. But then, sometimes if you talk, then you do get backlash. Like, one time I was playing this one game, and I was doing really well. We were winning. And all of a sudden I talked and for some reason, two of my teammates, they were guys, and they just did not like the fact that I was a girl and they completely left the game. So we ended up losing because they weren't playing anymore. And it's just like that kind of that hesitant moment where you have to decide if you want to speak, if you want to reveal that your girl and it's gonna change the whole outcome of the game. Why is that a thing? You know? Why does that have to happen?

Grace: Yea that’s so stupid that you have to be scared to talk. But I feel like a lot of the backlash is just for no reason. It's simply because of your gender. Or like, they'll make assumptions that like, “Oh, you're bad at this game because you're a girl”. I really hate that because it just sort of puts you down and it slowly chips away at your self esteem. Even if you're like, “Oh, they're just random, I don't care.” Like even some people in person, if they know I play games, they’ll assume that I'm bad just because I'm a girl or they'll make other assumptions.

Rachel: And Grace, you’re on the ESports team, aren't you?

Grace: Yes.

Rachel: See, that's more proving the fact that just because you're a girl doesn't mean you're bad. Like, we have Grace on the eSports team and that's really amazing and really awesome. But it is sad that it's almost expected that you're bad when you play as a girl. Like, when I reveal that I'm a girl sometimes, I get self conscious of every single move I make, like I beat myself up over every decision- if it's good or bad if I don't hit a shot, or if I just completely spray because I do that a lot. I just hold down the trigger button. But it’s just sad.

Sofia: Yea, there's so many stereotypes that just are enforced on “gamer girls” I guess. Like there's so many different agents in different games. Like obviously, in every different game there's different roles like DPS or damage and then support and for girls, they're always expected to play support, they're always expected to kind of be the person who doesn't really do much. They just have to do whatever people tell them to. And like for me, Sage in Valorant, she's like a healer. And in league, there's also healers. But everyone always expects you to play that healer, to be that person who just does whatever the male wants, I guess. And I don't really know why these stereotypes have come into gaming in the first place because gaming should be a unisex experience, it should be a universal kind of thing that everyone can do. And it sucks that gender was kind of roped into it.

Rachel: Going off of your Sage comment, when I was first learning how to play Valorant, I certainly played Sage a lot more, because she's kind of like, she's a good starter character. But I feel like a lot of girls do feed into the whole thing of Sage- and this is not to insult you Sofia. But just in general, it's like a lot of girls do kind of go into playing Sage more often and doing those support roles. And while there are of course, many people who go out of support roles, like I play Viper, and she's a controller. It's like maybe certain girls are scared to venture out of those support roles. And they really need to try and adventure into other roles and other categories.

Grace: I think the reason why a lot of girls pick the support role, I think it's just because we’re new to the game. Because like, when I was picking up League, I knew it was a really hard game and that there's a really steep learning curve. I picked the support role, because I knew you have another person with you in lane. So if you lose lane, it's not completely your fault. And also, I just knew it was less mechanically challenging. And because I didn't have any experience, like with a keyboard and mouse before, I just picked a role that I thought would help me get into the game easier. And I think that's true for a lot of girls because, like only recently have games been more marketed towards girls or have they been more open to girls. Because before, when we were all in like elementary school and middle school, games were only for guys which is why a lot of girls don't have experience. And I think that's why sometimes we'll choose more supporting roles. And I think even then the supporting roles, like just because everybody says “Oh they’re easy” and stuff. There's a lot of aspects of them that are important. Like for example in Valorant if you're like… what's it called? The guy who like runs in?

Sofia: Duelist?

Grace: Oh yeah is that like a duelist? I feel like a duelist you can just run in and get headshots like no brain anything. But if you're a controller or a Sage, you have to think about flanks and other stuff like that. It’s the same thing in league. Like, if you’re a support you have to think about more macro plays and other stuff that's going on in the game, not just mechanically, but what is going on IN your lane.

Sofia: Yeah, I like what you said about playing support characters when you're new, especially because you felt like if you did something or if your lane lost, it wouldn't be your fault. And I think that's something that also plays into Valorant and the reason why Valorant players also choose the support characters, because it's all about not getting blamed. Because especially being a girl, obviously if you're a bad player, in general, no matter your gender, you're gonna get blamed for losing the game. But for a girl, you don't really like to have that blame, especially if you're already not confident enough in the way that you play. Like sometimes I'm not confident enough in my own skills, no matter how long have played, no matter all the things I've done, I'm just not confident. And so I play these support characters because I don't want to be blamed for the game. If I did play a duelist like you said, and I didn't get those kills and I didn't win the game for my team, then I would be blamed and it would be even worse so because I'm a girl. I feel like the whole blame thing is just so scary for girls in the game. Rachel: I feel like, going off a very, very heavy stereotype, guys kind of go in running and gunning and they fit more of the duelist. Because like you said, duelists can just completely run and get headshots like nobody's business, but they're not focusing on strategy per se. But with sentinels and support characters like Sage, you do have to worry about flank and it's more strategical. And that's like, I feel like girls are like, how do I say this? Girls more so think about the strategies rather than the actual gunplay and aiming and shooting.

Grace: I mean, these stereotypes, I think it's gotten so bad that it affects every single girl because it's always just because of their gender. So like, even to the point where it sort of invalidates you and it's like, “Oh, you're not good at this game” or “You can't play real games”, because there's that idea that real games are FPS or stuff like that. And they think that girls can only play Stardew Valley or Animal Crossing and like I love those games, of course. But one, it invalidates the types of games that are more peaceful and sandbox, and two it invalidate girls who want to play games in general.

Sofia: Yeah, like these pro girl gamers or these pro streamers, there's a lot of streamers that are actually really good at the game. They're really good at Valorant. But just because they did gain popularity, because they were conventionally attractive, it invalidates it for all the men, they're just like, “Oh, you're not good at this game. You're just pretty. That's why you have followers. You're not good at this game.” Like Katsumi, she's on Cloud Nine White, which is the pro Valorant team for women and that team is actually really good. They're one of the best women's teams, I'm pretty sure but she's less validated just because she's very soft spoken, she's very, just cute, you know? And so it makes people think she doesn’t hold as much value as she does, because she's a very good player and people just completely forget about that. Because, “Oh, she's pretty. That's why she has a platform. That’s why she has etc.”

Rachel: Going off of the whole pro gaming thing, I feel like when you're playing as a woman, as a girl, I know that what I said earlier, I scrutinize every single play I make. And I kind of let those really bad comments get to me. And it's like, maybe I shouldn't really be playing these games, maybe I just don't have the right skill set. Because, I've always watched my older brothers play video games, and I've always wanted to do these things. But I've never seemed to pick up on it. Like I've never played Comp or like the one time that I played I was playing with Irons. Like, I'm not very good at the game but it's still really fun. And having those invalidating experiences of going, “Oh, you're really bad at this. Why are you playing this? Go back to the kitchen.” which is what I've been told, when I just want to have fun and play the game. I don't necessarily want to go play simple sandbox games, like Stardew like you said, I want something action packed and exciting. Sofia: Yeah, like, I remember, I first got into gaming around quarantine because obviously, we had nothing to do at home. And I remember I specifically bought a whole PC, a whole setup just so I could play with my friends. And it was really fun for me because I first started the game and they would just always play with me because it's fun to play with someone who's new, it's fun to teach them. But then all of a sudden, as soon as I started playing more and more, and I got more people to play with me, those same people that I bought the PC for, that I played games with originally, they were the ones calling me boosted, they're the ones saying “Why are you playing this game? This is not for you.” Those same people that inspired me to play started all of a sudden degrading me. And that was really tough on me because it felt like “Why did I even buy this, I don't even enjoy myself anymore because people who made me enjoy it are now making me feel like I shouldn't be doing this.” And I invalidate myself because I am a higher rank than average in Valorant. And it's because I did play with my friends who are like very, very high and they helped me get to that rank, but it wasn't about just getting to that rank, it was just to have fun with them. And the fact that people will always say a girl never deserves a rank, a girl doesn't really deserve it so the girl has to literally prove themselves to that person specifically that they can do what they have portrayed that they can do. It's just hard to deal with.

Grace: And so I think it's a lot more uplifting to play with other girls because if you find, I know in Valorant, but if you find another girl in lobby it's sort of a relief that like “Oh, I have a comrade! Thank you.”

Rachel: Literally, like I've always asked “Oh are there any girls here” or I've been asked that and the moment you find out you just have an instant connection with that kind of person and I'm just like “Let's go!”

Sofia: Yeah like you wouldn't even have to talk to them or know them. You could just be like, “Are you a girl?” “I'm a girl” “Oh my god we're best friends” “I love you” and stuff like that and that's kind of a way that girls have made it better for themselves. We've made it a community that's easier for us because instead of just sitting there and being like “Wow, I wish this was better”, we actually made it better. And now that a lot of girls are getting into these games, a lot of people are becoming similar in that way and it's so much easier to join a lobby because sometimes there most likely will be another girl and then that makes it so much easier on us to play the game and it makes it easier on everyone because we support each other.

Grace: Yeah, I think that reaching out in lobby is really nice because even though there's these stupid toxic stereotypes or whatever, you can sort of get through that by making friends. And you can sort of bond over that experience because you know that you've both been flamed just for being a girl so you're not gonna do anything like that to them of course.

Rachel: If y'all know the stereotypes of COD lobbies where it's like a bunch of guys and they're insulting each other and yelling at each other. But when you're in lobbies with girls, I feel like we moreso uplift each other, rather than like, “Oh, that was a really bad shot, what the heck?” You're just like, “Oh, let's go. That was amazing.”

Sofia: Yeah, and I really like, just what we've done as a community to make it easier on us. Even the stereotypes that have been put on us with the certain agents that we've played like, yes, I do main Sage, I play her a lot. But it's not just because of the fact that she's a support role or she's easy to play, cuz everyone just says, “Oh, you play Sage, because you're a girl, she's easy to play.” It's more like, I've been taking that and, there’s this whole thing about battle Sages where because Sage can heal herself as well as other people, so she can also take initiative and kind of control the game in her own way. And I've been able to do that too. And I like how everyone's been able to just take these stereotypes and just turn it into something that works for them and it just empowers us, instead of bringing us down.

Grace: I mean, to be fair to the guys, because I don't want to bash them too much. There are some of them who are kind of nice, or maybe it's just because they're simping for a girl. Because I know once I was in a league lobby, and I was trying a new role for the first time and so I was getting flamed by the enemy, right? And they're like, “Wow you suck at this.” And I was like, “Gosh, thank you.” But then, I think one of them asked if we had any girls on our team and I was not gonna say that I was a girl. Like, I'm not gonna put myself out there. But then one of my friends typed “Oh, yeah, this person is a girl.” And then they were like, “Oh, I see.” And they were like, “Oh, yeah, that character that you're playing is actually eally hard to get into. So you'll get there eventually. Don't worry about it.” They actually got nicer to me, after they found out I was a girl which was really, really unexpected, but kind of nice.

Sofia: Yeah, I feel like we should give the people some credit, because it's not like every single lobby is full of horrible people. Like sometimes I'll be in a lobby and it's always like 50/50. But the times that there are just a bunch of positive guys who don't really care that I'm a girl or they don’t care about the fact that I'm a girl will affect the way I play. It's just, they see how I play firsthand and that's how they judge me. And so it's just really nice because even through all these kind of bad experiences and situations, there's always good things can come out of it. There's always good experiences that we sometimes disregard by letting the negative ones overpower it. And so we just have to remember that in a way too.

Rachel: I've met a few people just through having these amazing experiences with them in spike crushes. And I'm like, “Do you want to keep playing later?” And we’ll play a bunch more rounds until late in the night. And it's just like, you've made these these friends just because you were nice to each other. Like, why can't everyone be nice to each other? There's always the positives outweigh the negatives. You know, as much as the negatives weigh on you, I always feel like there's more- personally, I always feel like there's more positives that are there to remember.

Sofia: Yeah. And who are you to let someone else dictate what you enjoy and how you play the game?

Rachel: So this concludes our episode of Across the Table. Thank you so much for listening. For a transcript of this episode, head to the Point of View tab on our website, nhsmessenger.org and follow us on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at NHS point of view for updates and new episodes. We've been your hosts, Rachel,

Grace: Grace,

Sofia: And Sofia and this has been Point of View.